Okay, I am going to be offline for the next week as the Tar Heel Family heads to Disney World. I was instructed by Tar Heel Wife that I would not be bringing my laptop to Disney and am currently in negotiations to hold on to my Blackberry for the week.
In the meantime, the Tar Heels hit the court twice in my absence.
UNC vs UNC-Asheville, Sunday, November 30th, 6:30 PM, FSN
After winning the Maui Invitational and lending assistance to a man in diabetic shock, the Heels earn a much deserved cupcake snack. In this case it is UNC Asheville which was a more compelling matchup before 7-7 Kenny George had his career tragically ended with the partial amputation of his foot. Everyone enjoyed watching Tyler Hansbrough matchup with the gigantic George. Now it is just you run of the mill drubbing of a Big South team by UNC. This is a good game at a good time. The Heels seemed to finally get it clicking in Maui but there is always an inevitable hangover from such a trip. It is advantageous for UNC that they get this game at home to shake out cobwebs and get tuned up for the trip to Detroit to play Michigan State
UNC 105 UNC-A 77
UNC vs Michigan State, Wednesday, December 3rd, 9:15 PM, ESPN
The annual trouncing of the Big Ten by the ACC has really already started. Maryland played Michigan State at the Old Spice Classic in Orlando and the Terps whipped the Spartans by 18. That makes figuring out this game and Michigan State a little more difficult. Are they overrated? Are the Terps underrated? Probably neither since MSU bounced back to beat Oklahoma State and Maryland promptly lost to Gonzaga by 22. I do know MSU will show up ready to play and this game will be in front of a hostile crowd as far as the Heels are concerned. Michigan State is a deep team playing at least ten players 10 minutes or more. In this respect UNC’s pace will not bother them the way it did Notre Dame. I also do not envision Ty Lawson running wild on the Spartan defense as he did against the Irish. UNC is still the more talented team and with Tyler Hansbrough showing great versatility with his ability to score from anywhere the balance in this game favors the Heels. I also fully expect Wayne Ellington and Danny Green to not be as quiet as they were during the Maui final. Toss in a healthy dose of Deon Thompson and Ty Lawson doing what he does, UNC should win but anything can happen on the road.
UNC 81 MSU 75
Consider this an open thread for all your commenting purposes this week. I will be back Saturday night at which point I will sort out the week that was. Also note any new accounts will stay moderation until I return. Enjoy the week.
GO HEELS!
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Comment number 101! Can anyone say “biscuits”?
Tar Heel Fan, come back soon! I’m going through withdrawal too. I made the mistake of mentioning to my wife the fact that I didn’t have my favorite sports blog this week and she came back with something like ‘maybe you shouldn’t think so much about sports’. It reminded me of the time I didn’t self-edit when I lamented missing ESPN’s marathon of UNC-dook games and being able to “bliss out on basketball all day”. It was true but perhaps didn’t sound all that understandable to my spouse. Does anyone else ever run into this sort of thing?
I have an observation that hopefully doesn’t through everyone into a tizzy. Has anyone noticed that if Hansbrough is the weak side help, it normally doesn’t come?
no keith I haven’t but I will look for it. I stated my hope for Tyler this season was to become a beast on interior defense, which will shore up a (largely) hidden weakness from last year, and benefit his pro potential immensely. it also might be noteworthy to know if that “breakdown” is in the first or second half (avoiding foul trouble). a huge trait of that 05 team was the ability to get stops at key junctures.
Don’t most of the charges that Tyler takes come off of weakside help?
UConn = fraud… surprise, surprise.
They were LUCKY to beat Buffalo.
Yeah, I do believe fouls are the reason he holds back on the defensive end. I would rather have him on the floor than on the bench. I just see that as one of our not too many faults. I mean think about the last time he was in foul trouble. He really knows when a player has him beat and doesn’t make the stupid foul, but against Michigan State it almost seemed that they took advantage of this in the first half while they were able to stay somewhat close. Just a thought. If you all have the game recorded, take a look. I had the same thought As big Game James did about his interior defense last year as well just didn’t want to be banned from the site
with the negative Tyler talk.
106 comments?
I guess you guys would like for me to get back online.
TH has always played a stay out of foul trouble defense. Also remember he does not possess the skills of a shotblocker i.e. the quick leap and huge vertical. So with him you get hands up, step in for the charge and generally solid defense when it comes to keeping a man in front of him. He does not do well if he fronts a player and they lob overhead. Remember Lville and KU both did it in the NCAAT last season with success. That is also a general team defense issue as well. I still think DT and ED are providing greater protection around the rim along with DG. That takes pressure of TH some.
UConn overrated? Surely you jest? Actually it may be more underachievement on their part. Maybe the seven footer ought to worry about the likes of Buffalo before making noise in the direction of TH or Harangody.
welcome back THF-hope you guys had a blast! credit where credits due–TH did have a nice weak-side block in a recent game-don’t recall which one. he’s got room for improvement for sure (as I’m sure he would concede), but I would prefer he stay out of foul trouble and save the “stops” for critical moments…which I think we’ll see from him.
dj_joek, your comment about the wife not understanding why guys like sports makes me realize how lucky of a man that I am. My wife has attended almost every UNC basketball that I’ve gone to (quiet a few) and is at every home football game. She screams louder than I do! She doesn’t really follow sports (other than UNC of course) but she really enjoys watching. Recently I was channel surfing and she noticed I skipped through a Panthers game, and she said “Hey, why don’t we watch that?” She is a rare gem!
I feel for you guys who have to squeeze sports in when you can. You are in my thoughts and prayers…
Actually THF, the Heels average margin of victory while you were away was 50+, so…
Incidentally, I am still at Disney. I just used my Blackberry to drop a comment. I will be home late Saturday night.
STILL at Disney? Geez, how much happy can one guy take?
Interesting, C. Michael.
Hansbrough is a slaughter over Sean May? I know Sean has been a disappointment in the pros, but didn’t he get 26 points and 24 boards against Duke? Didn’t he basically carry us to the title against Illinois? I am not all that good at evaluating Sean and Tyler defensively, but I give Tyler the edge based upon his being a better free throw shooter, having greater range and consistency and having more durability.
Deon Thompson over Jawad Howard? Probably based on what we have seen this year, perhaps. But Jawad had a lot more range and was an excellent outside shooter. He was the team’s most efficient offensive player, over McCants and May. He was pretty clutch too. These are two very different styled 6′9″ guys which makes a comparison difficult.
If Lawson keeps playing like he did since Maui, then there will be no comparison between him and Felton. Felton’s junior year was slightly better than Lawson’s and we already know that Felton was clutch based upon how he saved UNC versus Clemson and Illinois. Felton has been better on defense, too, up to now.
McCants definitely over Ellington. A lot of people didn’t like Rashad, but in many ways, he was the guy who gave the team its edge. He was far better defensively and far better from three point range than Ellington and probably just a better athlete, although their games are pretty similar.
I am not sure who you are comparing Danny Green too, but if it is Jackie Manuel, then obviously there is not much debate.
Drew and Frasor top Melvin Scott and Quentin Thomas as back-up guards. Will Graves and David Noel are about equal.
Marvin Williams was obviously a talent, but right now I give the edge to Ed Davis, although Davis obviously has never been through the wringer the way that Marvin was with UNC in that crucial Duke game where he made the big three point play.
The 2005 team had a definite edge over the 2008 in three point shooting and probably on defense. Now, with the rule changes and the apparent improvement by UNC from outside, and on defense, I give the 2009 team the edge over the 2005 team as the top Tar Heel squad of the 21st Century.
I’d give Hansbrough the edge over May, if nothing else because May had some games where he was not effective. Tyler makes himself a part of the offense, and would out hustle May in a minute. Plus, Tyler has developed a nice mid-range jumper.
I go with McCants over Wayne, since Rashad was stronger and could post smaller defenders with ease.
I’m sorry but I believe I’d go with Jackie over Danny. Both the 2005 team and this year’s squad has plenty of offense. We don’t necessarily need Danny to score big as long as other guys are playing well. However, Jackie Manual was one of the best defenders we’ve ever had, and that is something we will always need. Remembering him smother JJ ReDick still brings a smile to my face.
Jawad Williams was a senior leader and played hard. He was a better outside shooter than Deon, but of course Deon has better low post moves. I’m going to call that one a wash, assuming Deon continues his current solid play.
Felton vs. Lawson? I don’t know. I think Felton was a better defender, but Lawson is certainly improving in that area. I believe Lawson is a better ballhandler and runs the break to perfection. But of course Felton was tough and was probably the biggest reason we won in 2005. I’ll reserve judgment until after we win a title this year!
Drew and Frasor get the nod over Q and Melvin.
David Noel and Will Graves, I don’t know. Will is playing much better than previously, but Noel was a physical specimen. I hope Graves develops into a leader on the floor the way David did.
I’m just glad we can even have this conversation! Hopefully 2009 will end the same way as 2005!
William — During the last half on his final season, May was the best player in college basketball. I am as high on Hansbrough as I can get, but I can’t say that he is more productive than May was.
Jawad Williams had a three point shot that Deon lacks. He was also a tough character. But Deon has improved so much, and stepped up so well while Hansbrough has been out, that I can’t say a word against him.
I loved Felton, and spent much of the season yelling at my TV, “GIVE IT TO RAYMOND.” But the edge right now has to go to Lawson. He is the best point guard out there, and the fastest player in the college game. He just adds a dimension no one else can match. And his miniscule number of turnovers is a joy to behold. How many times over these past few years have we been gnashing our teeth at sloppy ball handling? But we’re not gnashing them nearly so much this year.
McCants was a special offensive player, better and more dangerous than Ellington. But WE will always have a spot in my heart for the three pointer that beat Clemson last year.
Marvin Williams, if I am recalling correctly, made the two biggest shots of the 2004-2005 season, one to win the game against Dook and the other to win the national title. Ed Davis is a great talent; indeed I have said here that he reminds me of Sam Perkins. The season is still young, and he’ll be even better by March. But right now I’d take Marvin.
The only player I’m a bit disappointed in is Frasor. I love him to death for his attitude and desire, but his offense is awful and, while he puts forth maximum effort on defense, he’s just not as quick as he needs to be. He’s often beaten by the opponent’s first step (which also happens with Ellington).
Lastly, how fortunate we are to be able to make these comparisons! Ed Davis vs. Marvin Williams. Tyler Hansbrough vs. Sean May. Yikes! This must be what heaven is like.
I guess we are forgetting Ginyard and he and Jackie Manuel seem kind of like bookends to me.
If we remember 2005, Carolina really struggled without McCants. Would the 2009 squad struggle the same way without either Ellington or Green, who appear to be his closest counterparts on this squad?
It is hard for me to really get inside Sean May’s psyche. He certainly showed amazing desire in 2005. He has had injury issues ever since high school, into the pro’s. In a way, you almost get the idea that he had to do what he did in 2005 to at least sort of equal his father, but once that was done, well, Scott May wasn’t much of a pro either. I check the box scores and I never even see Sean May’s name in there. I thought that he would at least be the equal of George Lynch in the pro’s.
I guess you never know. Carolina had great centers in Eric Montross and Sean May, and sandwiched approximately right in between was a guy named Brendan Haywood, who had only a so-so career at UNC. Guess which one of the three has had by far the best pro career? Washington desperately needs its injured Haywood back!
It is hard to top the 05 team for me. We had all the pieces in place. I still think our missing link is the David Noel/Rashad McCants/Rayshawn Terry type of guys. These cats could shoot an outside 3, but if you played’em tight, they’d drive in and dunk on you. Every member of that team would make you pay big for any mistake and every mis-match. Now our current team does that as well, but can they in a half-court set? I want to see how we play Duke before I give any kind of assessment on this year’s team. Ellington cannot make you pay for guarding him close, he just isn’t the type of guy that will do it. To me, we are not similar to the 05 team. Lawson still lackes that initiative to stick it to the defense when we are in the half-court set. Felton, not so much. It didn’t matter to him what kind of set we were in, he was taking the ball inside and scoring. When Ginyard gets back, we might reflect that 05 team a little more, assuming he has some offensive drive as well.
May vs Hansbrough. I will take Hansbrough. May playing full-time like he did in the tournament, I take May over just about anybody that has ever played the game.
McCants vs Ellington/Green. I take McCants. McCants is the type of athlete we have not had since. Danny comes pretty close as his defense is great, his attitude is great, he can score inside as well.
Ginyard vs Jackie. Tough call. Jackie was the ultimate defender. Ginyard, you get a little offense to boot.
Jawad Williams vs Deon. I will take Jawad. You simply couldn’t leave him open from outside. I do recall his clutch shooting being very valuabe. Deon provides a great secondary defense drawing machine in the paint, and makes life easier for Tyler & Co. to get offensive rebounds.
Starvin Marvin vs Ed Davis. Up to this point, I will take Ed Davis. Davis has the same hunger that Marvin had, plus a little extra strength. I do not know if Davis can have those little finess tip-ins that Marvin had, and those were Valuable at the time. When Davis gets an offensive rebound, he has to gather & collect himself before he goes up for the lay-in. Marvin did not have to do that. All Marvin had to do was get his fingers on the ball for an immediate tip-in, and this really is not defendable as you don’t expect it. Antawn Jamison was great at this as well.
Melvin Scott vs. Frasor. I call equal. I feel much more comfortable with Scott’s shot. Frasor hasn’t shown me much from behind the arc. But I can rely on Frasor to stay in front of his man on D. It really depends on team’s need when determining value here.
Felton vs Lawson. Felton for me. He could run the ball, score inside, and make great play determination. Vision of the court was better for him as well. He lacks Lawson’s speed, but more than makes up for it in defensive intensity and ability to break down half-court defense.
That sums it up for me. I take the 05 squad because, well, the won the N.C. If this squad wins as well, then I will look back upon this post and realize that the 05 team had what it took, and the 08-09 team was quite different, but in a different period of time, had what it took as well. And believe me, I think we do.
“During the last half on his final season, May was the best player in college basketball.”
Tyler Hansbrough has been the best college basketball player for the last season and a half. He will be a 4-time 1st team All-American; Sean May was a zero time 1st Team All-American. Hansbrough will be UNC’s all time leading scorer and rebounder; May is not in the top 10 in either.
Sean had a great 16 game stretch to end the 2005 season, and was instrumental in the title run, but even during that stretch, his averages were only 20.4 ppg and 12.5 rpg. Tyler averaged 22.6 and 10.2 for the entire season last year.
That’s true, but Tyler has always been the leader of his class and been deferred to in a way that Sean never was, given that Felton and McCants were every bit as highly recruited. Sean really had to deal with some of the egos on his squads in a different way, under different coaches, from what Tyler has experienced. Sean really helped McCants to function in a way that was critical to the team.
Tyler is basically the Christian Laettner of UNC, in the sense of being a four year guy white guy who is legit and universally recognized for his achievements (without being an blankhole), and certainly needs no defense, but Sean had some unique challenges during his years that deserve recognition.
Agreed. I was and continue to be a huge fan of Sean’s, I just happen to think Tyler is better… kind of like some people think BMW’s are better the Mercedes… like rathskellar said above, we are all lucky as fans that we get to have these debates so often!!
william, I understand your comparison between Laettner and Hansbrough. However, please do not ever again compare any Tar Heel to a Dookie in a equal way! Just busting your balls
IMO, the list of good dookies is as follows:
Jay Bilas
Grant Hill
Elton Brand (b/c he left after 2 years which royally ticked off K and because he really is a good guy (were in the same high school class in neighboring towns)).
Just remember what I always used to say to my female friends when they would comment about Laettner, and how gorgeous he was. Any guy better looking than I am has to be gay. Not that there is anything wrong with that!
Tyler Hansbrough is what Laettner would have been if Laettner were (1) a gutsy player instead of a dirty one, and (2) a model citizen instead of an arrogant jerk.
I don’t doubt C.Michael’s statistics about Tyler vs. Sean. Still, for the last half of his final year, no one could stop Sean no matter what. You couldn’t foul him because it did no good. You couldn’t get around him to grab a rebound because his torso was so huge. I have never seen a better, softer pair of hands on a big man.
As for Hansbrough, he is, at the end of the day, the greatest college player I have ever seen. If you had a son, you would want him to be TH: guts, strength, focus, teamwork, tenacity, ability, and a love of the game that shines through every move he makes.
I’ll cry when he’s taken out of his last game, because I doubt I’ll see the likes of him again.
“I’ll cry when he’s taken out of his last game…”
I have a feeling he will, too. Which will only make it 10x more gut-wrenching… Let’s hope that moment isn’t until about 11:30 PM on April 6th with the game comfortably in hand!!
C.Michael — I’ll be curious to see if he does. He is one tough human being. I don’t think there’s much that makes him cry. But he’ll know he’s leaving behind something he loves, and that is a really, really hard thing to do.
I’ll be with you (and, I suspect, our other commenters) on April 6. Anything can happen in one game (assuming we make it to that game). But I have a good feeling about this season.
i love our current team but i have to agree with most posters here that so far in the season, the 2005 team has the edge. now, many things can happen to tip the 2009 team over but for now…
two items:
1) i think the 2005 team’s desire to be successful may even be unparalleled by the current team. jawad, jackie and melvin went through 3 of the worst years in carolina basketball until their senior season. sean, ray ray and rashad were “blamed” for running a coach out of town. those were all horrible memories that were washed away with the national championship. i think falling short in the elite 8 and the final four are bad but not as bad as what we went through during those times.
2) hansbrough will be remembered as one of the best tar heel player ever but for one magic ride, late in 2005, sean may was the most dominant player at that time. that year, sean may single-handedly made sheldon “the landlord” williams (supposedly the most dominant inside player according to many talking heads) look like a joke. sean had 23 pts and 18 rebs in game 1 and 26 pts and 24 rebs in the second game. in the ncaa tourney, he averaged 22 pts and 11 rebs while dominating the big men from wisconsin, michigan state and illinois. i still would pick hansbrough given his consistency, sean may was just amazing in 2005.
That’s what we are comparing here. The 05 team vs the 09 team. I will take Hansbrough any day over the production of Sean May, with the senior year exception. I still like our chances this year, and I think we are far above the rest of the field, unlike 05, where there were some other good teams out there. I just got off the phone with one of my buddies, he is in fact a Duke fan. He said “I don’t see anyone beating you guys this year including us”. I said ,”anything can happen. Some of those steals we get now will result in fouls during the ACC regular season, and we probably won’t be breaking like we have been up to this point.” I don’t know what it is, but the current crop of ACC officials have a underlying bias against us. Teams are allowed to play us more physical than they have been in the past. I know officials have teams they support & enjoy just like I do. The pendelum swings. It could be 5 years from now, the next crop of officials could allow us to play more physical than we do & get by with it. I recall the physicality in which we played during the early-mid 80’s, and some of it was overlooked by the officiating. It is just the way things are. Every team has to deal with it.
not sure if people caught this:
“Today was a big challenge,” said Thabeet, who also had four blocks and played 39 minutes. “Their guards were making everything and our guards couldn’t make a shot and we were still able to win.”
way to throw your teammates under the bus, buddy. may be you should worry more about improving your own free throw shooting % from a measly 58% (7 of 12).
Everyone is in the frenzy stage as when the football team was going to go 11-1. We’re going to lose a few, and as people have pointed out before, we have about a 25% chance of winning the championship. Duke, Gonzaga, Connecticut, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc. can beat us on any given day. I also am not wasting too much time worrying about whether Hansbrough will cry or not after his last game. There are probably a few more important things going on in the world today to spend any time on that one.
“Everyone is in the frenzy stage as when the football team was going to go 11-1.”
Being enthusiastic about the unanimous No. 1 team is not being in a “frenzy.”
“We’re going to lose a few…”
A prediction that may or may not be correct, but is no more than a prediction one way or the other.
“…and as people have pointed out before, we have about a 25% chance of winning the championship.”
Which is darn good, if it’s true, which none of us has any way of knowing.
“Duke, Gonzaga, Connecticut, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, etc. can beat us on any given day.”
Maybe. Maybe not. Again, this is just speculation. And who’s in the “etc.”? Buffalo? I mean, on any given day….
“I also am not wasting too much time worrying about whether Hansbrough will cry or not after his last game.”
I don’t think anyone here is “worrying” about it. Hansbrough is an extraordinary and emotional player, and some degree of interest in his reactions is unremarkable, not to mention harmless. I don’t know why this would be a problem.
“There are probably a few more important things going on in the world today to spend any time on that one.”
There are undoubtedly many more important things going on in the world today than college basketball generally, but this site is, I believe, devoted to Carolina sports. This inevitably entails a discussion of Carolina’s players, few of whom are more gifted, admirable or interesting than Tyler Hansbrough.
nicely put 68.
I was thinking myself the the CNN site had a great blog site about worldly things to talk about.
Well put, rathskellar.
Heeledsoul, nice catch. Me thinks Thabeet doth protest too much…
THF, send me note I may have open tix for Evansville.
Also
1. Go UNC beat ND!
2. Go UNC beat Oregon!
3. Go UNC beat Northwestern!
I love Carolina football and basketball but I think it’s pretty incerdible to be waiting for a bowl announcement, worrying about a #1 basketball ranking and having 3 teams in an NCCA bracket.
Go Heels!
Chris, I don’t understand your sudden angst against UNC. FoxNews, CNN, MSNBC are all allocated to world events. I agree with you about their being more important things, but I just don’t understand why you would show up on this site to be critical of others that share interest in UNC basketball. When people visit these sites, it is because they are having fun & enjoying sharing ideas about their favorite team. A majority of us, if not all, spend much more time with much more important things such as our family & friends.
Keith and C.Michael — Thanks. We have a good thing going here. As you and JBowling have pointed out, there are plenty of sites devoted to world events. With our basketball team being what it is, our exchanges on this site, while more modest in scope, are also happier. Not a darn thing wrong with that.
Exactly. Sports are an escape from reality, for me, and I suspect most, which is is why I tend to focus on the positive whenever possible.
now that we’re getting into the thick of the season, I would like to see a comparison between Wayne & Rashad on 3pt fg % and steals, going forward. I think it will be closer than you think.
52,
Here are those stats to date:
McCants:
Shooting % (FG%/3P%/FT%): 49/42/72
SPG: 1.3
A/TO: 2.7/1.9
Ellington:
Shooting %: 47/37/73
SPG: 1.9
A/TO: 2.6/0.9
Wayne getting his 3P% to >40-42% is the key to making UNC nearly unbeatable, IMO.
thanks C.M–closer than I thought at this point. I guess the relevant point is Rashad got stops and shots at critical junctures. the dude was clutch down the stretch, and I hope Wayne will be too.
I’m not sure you can really compare McCants to Ellington. Maybe you can. To me they are two different players. McCants was such a offensive weapon. He shot it, if that wasn’t working for him he drove it. He could run the break, i.e. a offensive weapon. Ellington seems to be content to shot almost exclusively. which is o as well. Although he does run the break beautifully. I don’t know to me they are two different styles who played the same position. Let’s just enjoy them for who they are.
As for Tyler and Sean. Well they are and were phenomenal players. Both pretty dominate offensively, May had the best hands I’ve ever seen as well as a pretty good defensive stopper. Tyler is just a motor always idling to high. Love ‘em both
just me, but I think Wayne gets short-shrift, and I was admittedly one of his biggest critics his freshman and part of soph seasons. He doesn’t have the physical presence of McCants, but his defense, passing, and obviously his drives are under-rated. I simply find the uncanny similarities of 05/09 teams fascinating–that’s all.
One thing we shouldn’t forget about 2005.
The ACC had 3 three teams in the top five that year. Carolina lost its first game of that season, somewhat inexplicably, even given that Felton didn’t play, and they lost against GIT in McCants’ first game back during the ACC tourney. Aside from that, they lost at Wake, where McCants missed much of the second half due to foul trouble, and at Duke, in the last seconds, two losses against two top five teams on the road.
It is doubtful that there will be three top five teams in the ACC this season or any season, really, since there has only been about one such scenario ever, although 1974 was close with State, Maryland and UNC all in the top ten all year and State and Maryland finishing in the top five.
In 2001, Carolina, Maryland and Duke were all in the top five for a good chunk of the season but Carolina fell apart at the end of the year.
There has never, NEVER, been a Carolina team that is such a strong favorite to win it all. The 1957 team was not favored to win against Kansas. The 1982 team was essentially considered equal to Virginia and Georgetown. The 1993 team was considered inferior to Michigan and Kuntucky (but was lucky that they had to play each other in the other semi-final, while we dispatched Roy), and the 2005 was a slight favorite, but Illinois was undefeated most of the year and had demolished Wake Forest by close to 30 points.
People might point to the 1984 team, which was ranked number one most of the year but that team was considered only slightly better than Georgetown, the eventual winner. Kentucky with Sam Bowie and Houston with Hakeem, were also top teams that year.
The situation this year is probably closest to that of UNLV in 1991, where the Rebels came just short of going undefeated after being huge favorites to win it all, or that of Indiana in 1976 or UCLA in 1973, where the Hoosiers and Bruins won it all.
It would appear that Dook had a little problem this afternoon in Michigan.
Breaks my heart.
Maybe Michigan could be UNC. They’ve already taken out Duke and UCLA? Nah….
Michigan might be a year away, but Belein can flat out coach.
william’s point about the “situation” is critical. I don’t think anyone is saying that this is the “best” team ever, but it may be the biggest gap in talent ever. To have a team that is filled with McD All-American’s, who are both upperclassman AND accomplished, in the day of early entries is is really unique.
Take a look at ESPN’s commentary on the Duke/Michigan game. The writer said Duke hasn’t played succeptible to an upset so far this season. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! ???
You might want to check the final score of the Rhode Island vs Duke in Cameron. Are these guys in the bag for Duke or what?!!!!
Josh-
This has been, BY FAR, the worst year of ESPN’s infatuation with Coach K. That is saying a lot, but it is painfully true. At least in year’s past, the product may have warranted the attention, but this year they are simply a mid-top 25 team with no inside presence. I truly believe that Pat Forde’s article was some sort of a “kiss-and-make-up” piece since he denounce the Duke program post-Henderson cheap shot in ‘07. Maybe the execs at ESPN pressured him to lavish undue praise on the Dorks, who knows? It has gotten out of hand. If you click on ESPN’s home page post-Duke’s meaningless win over a decent Big Ten opponent, there is a pic of that incredibly odd-looking Kyle Singler dribbling between two flat-footed Boilermakers. However, it is that type of coverage that just makes people hate Dook that much more, and discredits ESPN in the process.
William-
Excellent comparisons between this year’s Heels and previous teams who were favored to win it all, if not run the table. Here are a couple of other teams that I would put in the same class as the ‘09 Heels, in terms of talent disparity and skill level.
1996 Kentucky Wildcats. This team actually had two teams that could have been ranked in the to-25. They were Coach Pitino’s perfect beast. An early loss to #1-calibre UMASS and SEC tourny loss to Final Four-calibre Mississippi State are quality losses.
1999 Duke Blue Devils. Ahhhh, the one Duke team that is a bit harder to hate like all the rest. Why? Because they were bad-ass. You knew that Coach K was not getting the same player-to-coach love from the likes of Will Avery and Corey Magette like he was with his beloved Laettner, Ferry, Hill, and Hurley prototypes. This team was as deep 1-6 as any team that I have seen. Their season was bookended by last-second losses to top-10 teams. In between they simply destroyed their opponents.
2007 Florida Gators. I think that this team would have given the ‘05 Heels a run for their money. They simply were a great TEAM, with everyone excelling at his specific role. They weren’t the quickest, and they played good defense in stretches, but they weren’t overwhelming.
Isn’t it strange how there have been so many more “dominant teams” who have not won it all? ‘91 UNLV, ‘98 UNC, ‘93 UK, ‘88 Oklahoma, ‘85 Georgetown, ‘99 Duke, ‘83 Virginia, ‘81 DePaul, ‘75 Indiana, and all of the injury-riddled UNC teams that were struck down by bodily harm more so than the opponents skill (i.e., ‘77, ‘84, ‘87, ‘95). 1998 and 2008 were simply the best teams that played their worst games in the Final Four.
Finally, all comparisons aside, I struggle to find a team with as much talent, per-position, as this year’s Heels. A fair comparison would probably be ‘99 Duke.
PG: Will Avery vs. Ty Lawson
SG: Trajan Langdon vs. Wayne Ellington
Wing: Chris Carawell/Corey Magette vs. Danny Green/Marcus Ginyard
F: Shane Battier vs. Deon Thompson
F/C: Elton Brand vs. Tyler Hansbrough
The victors?
PG: Lawson over Avery.
SG: For as much as we knock Wayne for being to one-dimensional on offense, Langdon WAS a straight shooter. He was the classic example of the Coach K hipocracy. All of that “I don’t believe in the 1,2,3,4, and 5″ BS. Another swipe at Dean that the media loved in the day, but K does nothing BUT isolate players to certian skill sets, if not positions. For immediate reference, look up wither Shavlik Randolph or Josh McRoberts. Langdon came to Duke with a decent all-around offense (see the UNC-Duke 1995 classic at Cameron), but he left as just another Steve Alford. While Wayne is not, and simply will not be another Vince Carter, or even Rashad McCants, he IS more multi-faceted than Langdon was.
Ellington over Langdon.
Wing: Toss-up. Carrawell was very much a media-endorsed star in college. Maggette was an abnomily in the Duke program. He is only beloved in Duke circles whe Dook Dorks make the case of Duke successes at the NBA level. Coach K underplayed him big time, and it cost him a national title. Carrawell was very good in the K system. Green has been vastly underrated while at UNC, while Ginyard has been the quintessential team player; specifically, sacrificing offensive prowess to be a shut-down defender. In this case, seniority rules, though the Duke duo were very, very good.
Green/Ginyard over Carrawell/Maggette.
F: Battier over Thompson. Mmm-hmmm. Battier could take the defender outside and he was a much better defender. The guy played on teams that won 133 games over four years. He was clutch and coachable. Geesh, do I ever sound like Dookie V?
F/C: Brand vs. Hansbrough. Oh boy. It’s bedtime.
1. I see VPI & BC “packed” 53,927 into Raymond James Stadium.
2. If the Heels play in the Meineke Car Care Bowl in Charlotte as expected I plan to be there. (note to myself - some of the bowls sure do have goofy names)
3. IMO it was great to see the Gators beat up on the Crimson Tide this afternoon.
4. Let’s hear it for the Lady Soccer Tar Heels! Go Heels! Beat N.D.!
Apologies for being so prolix . . .
Nice posts Dean Forever. Most everyone on this site has informative things to say and articulates them much better than our foes.
To be fair, the,”Duke hasn’t played succeptible to an upset so far this season,” quote was from the AP, and can’t be attributed to ESPN. That being said, it is easy to understand where the confusion came from!!
DeanForever, thanks for your article and comments.
I would say that the 1999 Blue Devils were probably the greatest team since the installation of the three point shot and the shot clock. Pomeroy has them rated far above any other team during the seasons that he has kept records (1999 was his first year), including the 2001 Blue Devils and the 2005 Tar Heels. The 1999 Duke team beat UNC by 12, 20, and 13 points in three games.
The only reason why I did not mention them, and the 1996 Kentucky team, too, is that both squads lost almost right off the bat and therefore, as great as they were, had no chance to go undefeated.
I don’t have their game by game records and I may be wrong since I was only a child at the time, but the 1973 Bruins were probably the standard for the title winner that had no real competition. Indiana had some tough games during its title run in 1976, particularly during its unbalanced Mid East regional, which had several top ten teams and the number one and two teams in the country in Indiana and Marquette. UNLV in 1991 had at least two teams that could play with it, Arkansas and Duke.
The 1973 Bruins had no rivals–at least not with undefeated NC State on probation and I doubt that State’s sophomore-laden team would have been ready for them yet anyway. Maryland was just a notch below State in the ACC that year and flamed out early in the NCAA tournament. The closest anyone came to UCLA in 1973 was 6 points, which was actually a rather healthy margin in the days before the three-pointer. Twenty-three of their 26 victories were by ten points or more.
UCLA’s talent was amazing that year as they were in the midst of an 88 game winning streak. UCLA had Bill Walton, Swen Nater, David Meyers, Keith (Jamal Wilkes), Greg Lee and Tommy Curtis. Both Wilkes and Nater would go on to be Rookie of the Year in their respective leagues, the NBA and the ABA. Walton would go on to win the MVP in the NBA and two titles. Meyers didn’t do that much in the NBA, but was an All American in college.
They were smart, too, with Walton, Wilkes and Lee all earning NCAA Academic All American status.
The tournament had byes then so a top seeded team only had to win four games, but UCLA won its four games by 17, 15, and then in the Final Four, against Indiana by 11, and then against Memphis State by 21 in the Final, an average margin of 16 points in the tournament back when a 16-point lead was more like 25 points without a shot clock or three-pointer. (UCLA never stalled anyway, which is to a large degree why they lost to NC State the following year, but that is a different story.)
On other thing that we should not forget is that college teams played approximately one quarter fewer games back then. UCLA never won more than 30 games in a single season. The record for most wins in a season without defeat is shared by Indiana in 1976 and UNC in 1957.
Thus, Duke preserved Carolina’s record by upsetting UNLV in 1991. Thanks, Coach K!