For every action…blah, blah, blah.
You knew this shoe had to drop as soon as someone over at the N&O decided to call up Bill Guthridge and ask him if he did indeed shun Roy Williams after the latter opted to not follow the former as head coach in Chapel Hill.
“When I retired, I had hoped that he would come back to coach, and when he didn’t, I should have handled it better,’’ Guthridge said Monday in a phone interview. “I should have communicated with him. I’m glad he took the job the second time around [in 2003] … but if I had it to do all over again, I’d do it differently.”
Apparently Eddie Fogler treated Roy much the same way. It is one thing for the fans to act like this but who knew the elders in the UNC family would be worse? Guthridge indicated that Roy “has been really nice to me” which I take to mean “Roy gave me a real office instead of the broom closet Matt Doherty stuck me in.”
Side question: What was Guthridge’s real beef with Roy? Was it simply a matter of Roy not doing what Guthridge(and apparently others) thought family loyalty demanded by returning in 2000? Or did Guthridge see the handwriting on the wall concerning his own failure to recruit quality players and knew that Roy was the best bet to fix it thus minimizing the blame that would assigned to him personally when the crap hit the fan? I will go with the loyalty option though had Roy come in 2000, I think Guthridge’s reputation would have taken less of a beating than it eventually did.
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None of us have first hand knowledge, but this is what I assume. Gut and dean concocted the plan to get gut the job in 1997 in order to increase guts pension from the state. He had to serve 3 years to get The higher pension.
It is crazy to think dean hadn’t talked to Roy about coming back some time in the late 90s, and Roy had probably said he would. But when 2000 rolled around, Roy knew he had a team that could win the nc in a few years, which was his dream. Unc needed to be rebuilt.
I think Roy chose to stay to win a championship and dean And gut thought this was selfish and he owed unc to come back and keep the program going. Gut has always been an sob, so he probably took it out in Roy.
As far as guts legacy, he probably wasn’t worried quite as much because of the final fours, and was probably concerned with the program generally
Coach Guthridge’s reaction in 2000 is not altogether different than many UNC, and his changed attitude in 2003 isn’t altogether different either. Gut’s legacy will not be damaged by this, more by the recruiting failures that set up the mediocre years.
Honestly, that’s how I felt about him turning us down. Before the snub I would watch Kansas games always with a smile because I knew Roy was ours for the taking, being groomed for the return. The only game I ever wanted him to lose was the Tar Heel/Kansas final four game. After the snub I always hoped to read in the morning paper,(that’s right, paper) how the Kansas team lost the night before. Oh well, in the end it all worked out for the best.
wb3,
You had me up to the point where Smith and Guthridge were conspiring to get Gut more pension money. We’re not talking about Gut moving up from a Processing Assistant III to a Computing Consultant I. I think Gut would retire in style no matter how many seasons he ran the show.
Once upon a time I told THF that I thought Dean was God until he left, then I realized he just liked playing God. Without firsthand knowledge, I’d say Dean made sure Gut got his shot at being head coach in a caretaker role, both of them thinking Gut was keeping the chair warm for Roy for a season, maybe two, tops. Then, each year they probably asked Roy informally if he was ready to come back and he said “no” until they finally tried to call his bluff. The rest is history.
We all know how loyal Roy is to Kansas, and I’d like to think that is the only reason why Roy turned UNC down in 2000. But, a HS friend who is a Duke alum (no word from him yet what he thinks about the “Titanic” video) has held since the Doherty years that Roy knew what he was in for had he left KU the first time, and that is why he stayed away. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. That and the fact that Roy didn’t like the AD at KU in 2003.
I don’t think Gut’s legacy will be tarnished at all, and I also don’t really fault him for what transpired after he took over. Dean was rewarding him for a heck of a lot of years on the UNC bench, and that is part of being in the Carolina Family. Was it the best thing for UNC? In hindsight we can say definitely no, but as Santiago pointed out I think Dean and Gut both felt like Roy would be there when Gut retired. If that had happened then everything would have been different. I don’t think anyone really expected Roy to turn down Dean & UNC, but that’s what happens when you are used to getting your way.
The Carolina Family Way bit us a second time when Doherty came in, but it worked itself out when Roy finally landed back in Blue Heaven. You can’t win them all (but you can try)!
If Gut (and Dean) wanted Roy to come to UNC in 2000, then they should have done a better job recruiting, period. It was beyond unrealistic to expect Roy to leave a KU team that had Kirk Hinrich, Nick Collison, and Drew Gooden as rising sophomores and commitments from Wayne Simien, Michael Lee, and Kieth Langford, to coach a team that relied very heavily on two football players and whose best player could at best be described as mercurial.
Actually, I heard guts pension is much, much higher because he was the head coach for three years. I think that is pretty well accepted.
Frankly, I’m glad everything worked out the way it did. I mane look at it this way: Would we be the same team that we are today if Roy had come that first time? Would we have these two NCs? Everything worked out for the best. We should let bygones be bygones and celebrate what we have, which is pretty dang good!
I second your position on this THF. This ship is sailing in the right direction. Maybe all of this was grooming for what we may have to endure in the future, God forbid Roy retire soon. Thing is, the next-go-round may be an entirely different set of options and criteria, as there is no great coach waiting for this opportunity. Next time it will likely be outside the family all-together. I hope that is waaayyyy down the road.
^ I vote Bobby Frasor!
wb3,
But was it serendipity or intentional? If the latter, that would make him a below-average recruiter, someone who holds a grudge (way too long), and kind of greedy. Sounds to me like the anti-Roy.
According to Art Chansky, the “original” plan was for Guthridge to coach only in 1998, retire, and Roy would have taken the job then. Roy was also prepared to take the job after the 1999 season, but Guthridge didn’t want to retire after the Heels went out in the first round to Weber State…He didn’t want that legacy.
During the 2000 season, Roy got rejuvenated by the players he recruited in Gooden, Collison and Hinrich and he just didn’t feel he could leave them…
Speaking of Bobby Frasor, UNCGirl50, did you know he is playing in Bulgaria now? I just ran across the info that he just arrived there a few days ago. Go Bobby and BEST of luck! Must be very exciting (and maybe a little scary too!) Guess I will have to start following European basketball too.
D, I did hear that and I’m so happy for him! He’s a fantastic player and I’m so glad he got that opportunity!
Gut is a loyal Tar Heel who served as the assistant coach to coach Dean for so long. For all that loyalty, I would give him a break. If Roy and Gut are over it, why should we whine about it? Plus, I don’t fault Gut for the lack of recruiting success. I mean, everybody knew he was a placeholder. Aside from the fact that it’s Carolina, would you go play for a team whose head coaching position is in question? Would you send your kid there when there are other more stable options?
I’m over it. I celebrate all our coaches that I got to “experience.” Coach Dean, Gut, Roy and even Doh. Can’t have the fantastic without the occasional bad. We’re all stronger for it.