Didn’t see that one coming did you?
There are a lot of questions about this one. WRAL has video of the incident here. The gist of the story is a Presbyterian fan was seated about 20 rows up from the UNC bench and screamed “Deon, miss it” or something to that effect while Deon Thompson was at the free throw line. Roy turns, says something to the individual then beckons security who eventually took the gentleman out. During the postgame press conference Roy opted to say very little about it only pointing out that he did not want fans there at the game on tickets provided by UNC to say anything negative to the UNC players.
Dan Wiederer at the Fayetteville Observer jumped all over the situation calling Roy “hypersensitive” and then decided to take his life into his own hands by calling UNC SID Steve Kirschner out for providing the “predictable Tar Heel spin.” Kirschner, to his credit responded to Wiederer. No word if phrases like “revoked media credentials” ever came up but Kirschner did provide a clarification as to what happened.
Kirschner e-mailed me Sunday afternoon, taking exception with my post as well as to clarify exactly what it was Williams was doing when he summoned Smith Center security to help him deal with the fan in question.
“First, Coach Williams didn’t tell security to throw the guy out of the building,” Kirschner wrote. “He asked security to see if that guy had a ticket for that seat because he wanted to know who gave him the ticket to a seat behind our bench. Security tossed him because he appeared to be intoxicated and our security (and Duke’s, Maryland’s NC State’s and pretty much anyone else’s security staffs) eject fans if they think they are.”
My apologies to Kirschner for accusing him of “predictable spin” in my original post. That, in retrospect, was out of line and not what I was intending to say. It was a poor description.
If the fan was indeed intoxicated, then it’s up to arena security to use their best judgment on how to handle that situation. End of story.
I am not sure the video lines up with that description but I also cannot hear what Roy ultimately tells Smith Center personnel when they come over. The individual in the video looks as though he might be intoxicated but it also appears the officers did not really talk to him to actual determine that. If Roy wanted to know whose ticket it was, that would be consistent with his vendetta against UNC ticket holders who either do not show up for cupcake games or opt to give their tickets to an opposing fan.
All that is beside the point which is this question: Was Roy being too snippy with an opposing fan heckling UNC during the game? Perhaps or more correctly, it is probably something the head coach of the Tar Heels should not concern himself with. It seems like small potatoes for a coach of Roy’s stature to worry about. Speaking for myself, I am of the opinion that if you are in an opposing team’s arena, then you should act like a guest. Now, if you paid for general sale tickets then obviously you should enjoy yourself, especially if you are sitting in the designated section for your team. If your tickets came via a fan of the team or you are sitting smack in the middle of that team’s fans in their building, then it would prudent to keep your mouth shut as much as possible. This is clearly the case here and Roy took exception probably because, as Kirschner said, the seat was likely a UNC season ticket holder’s seats given to this guy.
Now the more comical take on this story is the one Wiederer himself trotted out that has been repeated in some form or another on Twitter:
As for those UNC fans who will blindly defend Williams’ reaction, ask yourself this: if Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski had pulled the same stunt at Cameron Indoor Stadium, how would you have viewed it?
As arrogant? Overbearing? Dictatorial?
First of all, the reason Krzyzewski would be called all those names is because they apply to him whether he is ejecting hecklers from Hansbrough Indoor Stadium or not. Secondly, we could also tack on hypocritical given the general behavior of Duke fans at any given moment. One opposing fan yelling “miss it” pales in comparison to the alarming levels of classlessness on display in Durham night in and night out. Setting all that aside, I would think the reaction would be the same: endless grief from the media and opposing fan bases. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not been paying attention.
And if you get any grief from your Wolfpack friends simply tell them “4,297.” That was the total attendance at the RBC Center on Saturday when the Pack took on Georgia Southern. With numbers like that, Sidney Lowe could talk to each fan individually about their behavior.
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Excellent post as usual, THF.
Who would have thought the Presbyterian blowout game could have any controversy? I think this should be classified under Slow Basketball Week. How many fans are normally thrown out of any given game for public misbehavior? This one just got caught on video somehow.
You just know what the Duke crazies will be chanting when Deon is at the line in a critical late-game situation…
I haven’t watched the video but there were plenty of open seats in the lower bowl and he could have simply walked down there and claimed one. I did see a guy get hustled out that night for trying to sell tickets inside the Dean Dome during the break. Probably just a guy with seats not knowing the secrets of when and where to sell tickets, it would seem obvious though that selling them inside the venue during a game would be a bad idea. My eyes are still bleeding from this game, it was painful, regardless the score.
The Dean Dome security doesn’t play games now the same as they didn’t’ when I was a senior in the spring of ’91. At halftime of the UNC-dook game, on the concourse, an intoxicated student made his way back in the building after being tossed, and was promptly shown how to open his head on the floor by an officer.
It was pretty ugly and bloody, and in retrospect not all that surprising, but boy did it scare me!
Here’s another question: Have our fans really become so soft? How do the folks who are sitting in the section behind the UNC bench let a fan of the opposing team sneak into their section to begin with? And then how do they let him get up and heckle a UNC player, without one of them, the “fans”, shouting him down? The way I see it, Coach Williams was forced to do the jobs that the “Fans” in that section should have done.
“And if you get any grief from your Wolfpack friends simply tell them “4,297.” That was the total attendance at the RBC Center on Saturday when the Pack took on Georgia Southern.”
No. That was the attendance in REYNOLDS on Saturday when the Pack took on GaSo. Less than half capacity in that tiny little barn (that happens to be the best place to watch indoor sports in Raleigh) is simply pitiful. NXSU fans = worst fans in the State.
RAJ has a point. I use to go see Carolina play at reynolds coliseum (back when they had fans attending bb games) and I had plenty of motivation to keep my mouth shut. I would assume our fans would have treated this guy the same way.
He was obviously drunk and most likely in the wrong seat so having him tossed doesn’t seem out of line. It’s just surprising Roy had to be the one to point this out to security.
Just a look at the various message boards and blogs today, tells me that State fans were at their computers commenting on Roy rather attending their own game.
If I wore UNC garb into an opposing arena, got drunk and were yelling right behind the opposing coach, I would expect to be tossed.
on another note,
future Tar Heel James McAdoo named 2009 USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year. At 16 years old, McAdoo is the youngest recipient in the 30-year history of the award.
unless theyve got new eyes making this pick from previous years, or a new process, McAdoo is going to be GOOD. just look at the previous winners.
i’ll let THF start a post with the link.
“If I wore UNC garb into an opposing arena, got drunk and were yelling right behind the opposing coach, I would expect to be tossed.”
Do that in the northeast, say at Giants’ Stadium, and getting tossed (while keeping all teeth intact) would be your BEST possible outcome…
Simple fact: If the jackass Tar Heel Fan with seats 20 rows behind the Carolina bench had actually showed up to the game and sat in their seats, then this drunk fool wouldn’t have been there in the first place……….
On the surface this does seem over the top, but we also don’t know exactly what this guy was doing or the state he was in when the cops came up to him. Ultimately the decision was up to the police, and they decided to eject him. So, in actuality, Roy Williams did not eject the fan but the police did.
And for the State fans out there who want to make this mole hill into a mountain, I’ve got a better number for you than the 4,297 that THF mentioned. How about the number 20, which is the number of years since State has been relevant in college basketball.
And if Coach K started tossing out of control (and mostly idiotic) fans, Cameron would be pretty much empty for each game.
@scl11 – bingo. Therein lies the real problem. First Roy has to call out the “owners” of those seats out for not showing up earlier in the year, now Roy has to deal with this. The solution is obvious. Turn those seats over to the students or the general public.
I think many of the comments here are embarrassing. I don’t want UNC fans to be compared to Giants fans or Wolfpack fans or Philly fans or whatever.
I attended a game at Cole Field House with my wife several years back, wearing a Tar Heel sweatshirt and politely applauding our good plays and was threatened with violence by fans around me, which is obviously a crime no matter where you go in the U.S. It ended up being a big win for UNC back in 1997, I believe. After the game, an older Maryland fan approached me and asked me to please not think that all Maryland fans are like that.
UNC fans have always been more docile, if you will and that is to our credit. I don’t think, however, that it is Roy’s job to be pointing at fans in the stadium. It does not reflect well on him and detracts attention from the players and places it on him. Roy should just coach and let security do its job.
Let me add this. One thing about UNC fans that sets us apart is that generally, we like our teams the appropriate amount.
Alabama fans who throw bricks through their own coach’s window, like Alabama football too much.
Kentucky fans who are willing to look the other way in order to win, like Kentucky basketball too much.
Maryland fans, who often brawl with opposing fans and riot after games, obviously have too much invested in their basketball team.
Brazilian soccer fans who commit suicide after losses, obviously have too much invested in their team.
Kansas basketball fans are not as bad perhaps as some of the other examples but they seem far more rabid than UNC fans in general.
UNC fans have perspective and balance and if Roy wants to turn us into fans just like the Jayhawks have, I think he is going to end up aggravating more people than it is worth.
^I can appreciate your point of view, but there is still no excuse for a fan of the opposing team to be in those seats because the people who the university gave the tickets to were too sorry to use them.
One of the local sports radio guys indicated that Roy’s mistake was letting one fan get to him and thus elevating that fan’s stature. Roy is a hall of fame coach with two titles in five years. First of all, this sort of stuff is below his pay grade and secondly he puts himself on equal footing with a fan from some team that is barely scraping by in DI. In other words, Roy needs to be more subtle. Then again, Roy doesn’t do subtle.
Generally, restraints on alienation are frowned upon by law. Athletic teams denote tickets as “licenses” in order to have more control over the final disposition thereof.
Attempts to do so, meet with mixed results. The Redskins and Capitals have recently gone to great efforts to prevent Steeler and Penguin fans from taking over their venues.
The Baltimore Orioles and Washington Nationals seem thrilled anytime the Yankees, Mets, Phillies or Red Sox come into town, because it guarantees full stadiums and big box office receipts in a sport where walk-up business is significant. It is probably true for the Wizards, also.
So, basically, unless an organization is already operating close to full capacity, they tend not to discourage opposing fans from giving them money.
There are a lot of different ways that teams can attempt to distribute tickets. Most teams try to maximize revenue. If UNC has a primary goal of maximizing the revenue from ticket sales in advance, then I think it is tough sledding for them to then complain if some fans don’t show up for dogs of games like this last one.
I believe my tickets for the Maryland game came from a Maryland fan who liked basketball, at my wife’s office but knew that I had never seen UNC play at Cole Field House. This was a nice gesture on this Maryland fan’s part, but apparently Roy finds such gestures to be hostile acts.
If it is such a huge deal to Roy, however, he can opt to sell tickets at the gate. This will, of course, diminish receipts.
The whole thing annoys me. I don’t need any feedback or input from Roy about how to cheer for or support my team. Dean never did that. What Dean often did, however, was to tell our fans not to disparge opponents. I expect Roy to call out any UNC fans shouting when opponents shoot free throws, just as Dean did.
If other teams like Duke and Maryland want to behave like imbeciles, let them. I have a feeling that any advantage from such behavior is much smaller than we think.
The video is the hottest thing on the net since Hansbrough jumped off a balcony. But it won’t reach critical mass like that tempest in a teapot or Sticker-gate, and will likely die tomorrow.
Just depends on what ESPN does with the video.
^Get a job, hippie.
^ I’ve waited 5 long years for this…
william,
First, don’t see how every Carolina fan that has seats in the lower bowl showing up or making sure they are filled by Carolina fans, so that yahoos like this guy are not within shouting distance of Roy Williams is becoming imbeciles. Simple fact is if a Carolina fan’s butt was in that seat this never happens, end of story.
Secondly, I know you think Dean was the epitome of perfection and Roy does not meet that standard, but no need to make it sound like Dean turned water into wine for the fans to have with their cheese while they couldn’t care if Carolina won or loss because they had lives with more important things going on than rival fan bases. Dean had his flaws too, and evidently Roy’s passion is a flaw in your eyes. Roy expects all Carolina fans to be as passionate as he is and show up for the game and root like hell for their team no matter the name or ranking of the opponent, and I agree with him. I think what pissed Roy off was that he had to hear an opposing jeer from a seat 20 rows behind his bench that should have be occupied by a Tar Heel fan not some belligerent Hose fan.
Finally, when you were cheering for Carolina in Cole Field House did you yell at the Maryland players at the free throw line? It is funny that everyone is making this guy’s actions to be harmless just because he didn’t use vulgar language. I don’t know about anyone else, but I cheer for my team not against the opponent. But evidently in a world where the Network has made the actions of Duke fans hazing and yelling at the opposition the new standard of great fan support, everyone assumes a guy yelling for a player to miss a free throw is now the norm and not bad sportsmanship from the Blue Hose jackass 20 rows up from the Carolina bench.
Roy was wrong to address the idiot, and should have just called a manager over to notify security, but we’re talking about Roy Williams dang gummit and he likes to handle things a little more openly than his former boss. Personally, I’d like to see Roy throw out the sorry so-called Carolina fans that have seats in the lower bowl, but can only show up for games against the Michigan State’s of the world.
I have never been a big fan of the “holier than thou” attitude.
For every so-called Carolina fan who thinks he is better than the rest of us because he yells louder or what have you, there are others for whom loving UNC basketball doesn’t involve screaming or shouting, attending every single game in person, or counteracting opposing fans, but simply watching the game, remembering the great games and teams and keeping the memory of great players alive among new UNC fans.
For the record, I was only clapping and perhaps standing from time to time and saying, “alright!” when I attended the game at Maryland, but I believe that everyone should have the same right to cheer at a venue if they are admitted, regardless of content, and I think the Supreme Court of the United States would agree.
Ironic because Your veiw of Roy vs. Dean is a “holier than thou” attitude.
“The whole thing annoys me. I don’t need any feedback or input from Roy about how to cheer for or support my team. Dean never did that. What Dean often did, however, was to tell our fans not to disparge opponents. I expect Roy to call out any UNC fans shouting when opponents shoot free throws, just as Dean did.”
Is disparaging the officials okay?
I am a little lost here. Granted yelling at the opposing team or doing what Duke fans do is probably a sound rule though UNC students chanting “You Can’t Beat Us” to MSU was sort of awesome.
The flip side is cheering for your team I assume means yelling, screaming and generally being as loud as possible. Cheering big when they score, getting loud when the opposing team has the ball and the shot clock drops to 15 seconds. Yes, some people are obnoxious but I screamed until I was hoarse at the MSU game and had a great time.
I will let you clarify your own comments william but on the surface it seems to be you are suggesting a kind of fan behavior which has gotten UNC stuck with the “wine and cheese crowd” moniker.
That is not “holier than thou.” That is simply stating that I agree with the way Dean Smith handled similar situations. I keep getting accused of things and I don’t know where they come from. I think I probably have more often been accused of not being sufficiently pro-Dean Smith on this site.
UNC has had three Hall of Fame coaches, all with different personalities, and yet all three with similar degrees of success during their coaching careers. Roy Williams in many ways resembles McGuire more than Smith and there is a lot to be said for having that kind of fire and passion, but there is also much to be said for the coolness and aplomb for which Smith was generally known, as well. Smith was coach when I was a student, as is still true for probably most of us, and I probably do feel more comfortable with his approach towards fans and fan support.
It does seem ironic to see a UNC grad following the two Kansas guys, trying to make UNC more like Kansas.
In terms of what is proper, I think Dean was probably a bit strict.
I seldom have seen problems at sporting events, with the exception of Maryland games, in terms of what goes on with the crowds, but you can’t have two policies, one that applies to UNC fans and one that applies to “unwelcome visitors.”
Noise is fine; no calls for “wine and cheese” but the paradox here is that Roy is complaining that there wasn’t enough noise, in fact, to drown the lone yeller out. That seems to be an untenable policy.
Beyond that, we are all getting into personal opinion. Some people don’t mind swearing. I am not a big fan of it. I don’t care for personal attacks on other players or coaches as is the wont at Duke.
Obviously, threats of violence against anyone in the arena crosses the line.
But should UNC fans be allowed to boo bad performances? Should they be allowed to call for the ouster of coaches such as Doherty? Should they be allowed to wave their arms in the bleachers? I would say, “yes.”
I will say that it is interesting that Roy Williams’ son was ejected from courtside, I believe during the big Duke game in March of 2005 for yelling at officials and apparently, Roy was irked at the officials and felt that they should not have removed Scott.
If showing up for ALL basketball games and cheering for your team passionately is being a little more like Kansas then sign me up………
“I believe that everyone should have the same right to cheer at a venue if they are admitted, regardless of content, and I think the Supreme Court of the United States would agree.”
Not if the venue is privately owned.
William – If I am hosting a gathering at my home and somebody acts like an idiot and begins ruining the experience for everybody else, I would make them leave (which is why I have no problem with what Roy did). What would you do?
Another number to rile N.C. State fans? 100. That’s the number of years that NCSU has been playing basketball, but you would never know it from their Athletic Department. UNC has a logo, t-shirts, special events, books, DVDs, etc. State has… uh… um… nothing that I’ve seen.
Silly example, 850. Obviously, you can eject someone from your home, for pretty much any reason or no reason at all. Do what you think best with all your rowdy friends.
Sorry C. Michael. The venue is not privately owned.
Furthermore, you are not even correct with respect to the law, even if it were considered to be privately owned.
Ownership alone does not insulate a locale from the 1st amendment, as malls, housing developments, corporate towns and other privately-owned organizations have found upon trying to stop free speech in such areas.
I doubt that UNC can legally set two standards for fan behavior. Time, manner and place restrictions can indeed be set, but I know of little precedent in the realm of sporting events which would allow for two different standards, one for pro-UNC people and one for anti-UNC people.
I guess when we had the Olympics in Lake Placid, you guys would have wanted to see all the Russian guys ejected for rooting for their squad.
“in terms of what goes on with the crowds, but you can’t have two policies, one that applies to UNC fans and one that applies to ‘unwelcome visitors.’”
I disagree. Right or wrong, sporting events are generally emotionally charged events. When you go to such an event and openly root for the visiting team you are instigating a large group of emotional people. As such, your actions have a larger effect on the state of the crowd than do the actions of someone who is rooting for the home team, which is why it is completely justifiable to hold said visitor to a higher standard.
Politics is charged too.
Abortion rallies, union events, anti-war demonstrations. Think of all the terrible things that could happen if you allowed free speech in the political realm. Chaos, fighting, death, even, and obviously, those who are outnumbered at such events have a larger effect on the actions of the others than those in favor of whatever event it is.
I bet Roy would prefer that this web site didn’t even exist. I mean, we all say negative things from time to time and we might make his job and his players job harder. Let’s shut down debate here too, or regulate it so that only things that comply with the official UNC line are said.
Ultimately, there are two kinds of people in my experience, those who believe in free speech, and those who say they believe in free speech, but….
“I guess when we had the Olympics in Lake Placid, you guys would have wanted to see all the Russian guys ejected for rooting for their squad.”
The Olympics are an international event with 1000′s of fans from every participating country. Mixed rooting interests are to be expected, the same as you would see at the ACCT and NCAAT. There is no comparison between that, and one, drunk, idiot sitting in the middle of hundreds of UNC fans.
Listen!! In my opinion this is college basketball. You go to a game to cheer for your team and taunt the other. I’m a UNC fan and I totally think Roy should have just let it go. You can’t expect me to believe that Roy has never heard anybody make a taunt toward one of his players. Give me a break!!!!!
I was at the game on the other side of the stadium, and I have to say, it seemed to me the ejected Blue Hoser was yelling a whole lot more than “Don’t miss, Deon.” I wasn’t close enough to hear everything, but from what I could tell, he was moving from section to section and cheering loudly for his team as he went along. He was sitting next to the players’ families and parents when Roy said something to him and security. I’m sure other Carolina fans said something to him as well, because there was a large applause throughout the stadium as he was escorted out. Then he flicked everyone off.
I have to say though, the UNC crowd was terribly quiet and/or disinterested in the game. We drove three hours to attend, and the people in front of us spent the whole time eating pizza and chatting about movies and books. Maybe the Presby fan wouldn’t have been so noticeably obnoxious if the Carolina fans had been a bit more engaged.
It was a horrible match-up. Some of you guys are great at applauding and cheering no matter what. Some of us have more trouble faking it.
In Roy’s defense, when Dean was coach people complained because he refused to play in-state, out of conference teams. Sometime before Roy, that policy changed, since I remember losing to Davidson, I think, and playing Wilminton. Right now, though, with Davidson and UNCC down, there is not a huge selection of decent teams from North Carolina to play. Wilmington, maybe? East Carolina? Central? ASU?
“but from what I could tell, he was moving from section to section and cheering loudly for his team as he went along.”
I’ve read this several other times, and to me, it makes much of the whole argument moot. If the guy was sitting in a section that he did not have a ticket for (and was stupid enough to draw attention to himself while doing it), then he deserved to get tossed out.
william, the following two statements from you seem contradictory. Could you clarify?
1) “I expect Roy to call out any UNC fans shouting when opponents shoot free throws, just as Dean did.”
2) “But should UNC fans be allowed to boo bad performances? Should they be allowed to call for the ouster of coaches such as Doherty? Should they be allowed to wave their arms in the bleachers? I would say, “yes.””
Thanks for the account Jessica.
I’ve expressed my opinion over at Thee Blog, but I shall state my veiws over here too.
Roy has been under stress and pain killers lately, that may be part of the reason for doing what he did. I’m not defending him, but I’m just saying, he was out of line, but he has a good excuse if he needs one.
I still love Roy. This is one on a very short list of mistakes Roy has made. This will calm down and be old news by Saturday.
Hell, I can’t really say anything. My seats are (usually) in the upper level of the Dean Dome, and if they could hear the crap I holler out they’d probably toss me from every game I attend.
I don’t necessarily disagree that the guy should have been tossed (especially if he was drunk, moving around, etc), but as others have said it should have been handled by security entirely and not Roy. He should have known that nothing good would come of his involvement.
OK.
The worst piece of fan behavior I have seen in many years of attending all sorts of games was in the 1976-77 ACC Men’s Basketball tournament. At the end of a game involving UNC, which UNC lost, someone in the very center of the UNC seating area threw a bottle of Jack Daniel’s finest beverage (still a fair amount of liquid in the bottle) right in the middle of the court.
That was crazy, criminal and just insane. Fortunately the game was over. This was in the Greensboro Colliseum and the lights were being turned down between games. The players were clearing out and no one was struck by a flying bottle, shards of glass or anything else. Someone had to clean it up. Which was not easy!
I was at the game as a member of the student press (not for UNC), but how could you write about it?
No one did. There was no reporting of the incident. Sure it was a single idiot. But these things are often just a simple act of idiocy.
I respect a head coach who will stick up for his players, but doing this sort of thing will encourage heckling, especially at other venues.
So those are my thoughts.
briarcliff, I am just saying there needs to be consistency.
About the previous comment, I thought I had heard about that, but wasn’t it the 1976 ACC tournament, where UNC lost to UVa, and not the 1977 one where UNC beat UVa?
Getting back to the recent incident:
If the guy was drunk, then show me the breathalyzer results. And let’s not forget that “drunk” with respect to driving legally is far different from what most people would consider “drunk” at a party or a ball game. Maybe he was, but it is always an easy thing for people to allege. Maybe he took too many legally prescribed painkillers.
Cops and security people are usually able to find pretty much any reason they are looking for to eject someone. Someone on here earlier made a comment about the excesses of security people in the past–guess what–they are often afraid to violate people’s rights now because virtually everyone is carrying a camera-phone, so at least in one sense, hurray for technology!
One thing that I can tell you, is that ultimately if Roy continues to push this, the ACC may get involved and make the whole thing moot. I have never heard Coach K (despise him as I do, do such a thing). I do hope there is an explanation such as UNCGirl proposes.
I believe that sporting events should be open to a variety of fans. Obviously, there will be 99% or 95% Tar Heel fans at our home games, but I think that it debases sports to say that no one else should be allowed in or be allowed to cheer for the opponent. One of the most enriching experiences I have ever had at a sporting event was a Panthers game where there were many, many Steeler fans sitting in our section. It remained good natured, but very, very vocal in terms of yelling and cheering. It was a close game and I can’t even remember who won, but I remember the great give and take.
I do feel certain that we won’t see any articles on this site this year praising Tar Heel fans who manage to “sneak” into Cameron Indoor Stadium for Duke’s home game against us this season. Obviously, such actions are outrageous.
I say we just all calm down and take a deep breath. This is not a huge deal. Who knows, maybe Roy will apologize or give some explanation. We should move on. We have the 2nd greatest coach ever, and before that, we had the greatest coach ever. I would rather have something like this happen every, say three or four months, than have it happening every few days like at UK.
So to wrap things up, what Roy did wasn’t the smartest move, but he may have an explanation. We don’t know the full story so there could be information we are not aware of that will make this make more sense. We should forgive Roy and move on with him and his shoulder in out thoughts and prayers. We have a classy program, but not one without a few bumps in the road.
Go Heels!
Edit: I find it hilarious that this was the biggest story about the game. Not Watts’ great play, Campbell’s great play, nor Ed’s five, (count ‘em five!) blocks. But this. Wow.
I would venture to say that the greatest coach ever, is someone that none of us has ever heard of, probably a small college or high school coach like Eric Taylor. He may even have a losing record like Roy Williams did as a high school coach.
Dean and Roy may be among the greatest combination recruiters/coaches in college basketball, but it is the players who win the games. Dean was almost unable to bring home the title with Michael Jordan, James Worthy and Matt Doherty on his team. It takes decent coaching, great players and a lot of luck to win in college ball. Just ask any of the living 1957 Tar Heels if they could have beaten Kansas five games out of ten.
The Redskins have already gone through a similar fiasco to this, this season. They ended up getting hammered and having to rescind their policy, in spite of actually having a much firmer legal basis. The difference was that the Redskins are having a terrible season, so the policy had few defenders. UNC is currently at the top of the basketball heap, so Carolina can do virtually anything and some people will defend it.
But I will say this, if UNCGirl is unsure about what Roy did, it was probably something Roy should not have done….
And I do agree with you UNCGirl, Frank McGuire was the greatest coach ever…. Dean wasn’t bad either….
Well they are the two greatest coaches ever in my opinion. Should I make that more clear?
And that’s true. Even I, the ever positive and chipper UNCGirl, am unsure about this. It’s gotta be bad…
One reason for the Williams’ act is that he is under a lot of pressure this year. Just won a championship, lost a couple of games, star Senior with repeat weird foot ailment, just had major shoulder surgery (which is NOT performed lightly), Big guys not up to former recent big guy standards and getting ready for a huge national TV game out of state.
I am sure there is more.
I am not condoning, excusing or recommending he do it again, but give Williams a break.
^*Applause*
Okay, I’m going to make one comment and drop it because I can’t believe something like this is generating this many comments…
First of all, when security got to the area they noticed the guy was intoxicated and ejected him end of story.
On Yahoo Sports there was a comment from a fan who was sitting in the section who said this fan was belligerent throughout the contest and that it was obvious to all in the section that the guy had one too many…
And William, the Redskins fiasco and this one are total apples and oranges comparison. In the Redskins scenario they put a ban on bringing banners into the stadium. They weren’t kicking people out of the stadium, they were just confiscating banners as people entered FedEx Field.
I still say, what is the big deal??? Roy brought the guy to security’s attention, when security got to the area they noticed the guy was drunk and kicked him out, end of story…
Can we now move on to something worth discussing and drop this now??? GEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH!!
Reading some of these comments has my blood boiling just like with the stickergate issue…Sometimes people need to get a life….
Thanks.
The story I related above about the ACC Tournament is very real and also something to think about. It could have been fans from any school, but at the time it seemed to fit with the sort of UNC fans who went to the tournament.
I would like to say we probably do not have all the facts about this incident. If these criteria were met, I support Roy’s decision, and the security force’s decision. 1. Obnoxious behavior towards a player (ie racist comments, vulgar language, general continued rude comments).
2. Intoxicated state. 3. Disruptive to those around.
What kind of bothers me is the fact that this gentleman felt comfortable being loud during what is usually a quiet time (foul shooting). I am a big dude (not bragging here), and there is no way on earth you’d hear me in Cameron indoor stadium taunting or saying these things out of fear of facing the crowd or those around me. Again, I’d be scared to death, and thus would not do it.
For someone to feel comfortable and willing to do this makes me think we don’t have the home court advantage we need to have. I want our crowd to be boisterous and loud, and I definately want it to be an UNCOMFORTABLE circumstance for an opposing fan to be chanting during one of our players shooting foul shots. WE AS FANS need to be the checks-n-balances to this, NOT ROY!
I don’t think I want you some of you sitting on my jury if I ever end up at trial. Yeah, there was a guy at Yahoo Sports and he says….
Solid evidence, just as about as solid as “I was at home with my mother watching CSI”.
And yes, it was a big deal how the Redskins were treating their fans. Not only did they take banners. You neglect to state that they made people remove clothing and that they sued season ticketholders. They have attempted to prohibit fans from walking to games in order to force fans to pay parking fees of $40+ per car. They have alienated many of their supporters. I know, as a lifelong Redskins fan that the Ravens are starting to look more appealing than ever.
What is the big deal? I have never, never, in the history of sports, seen a coach who has engaged in this kind of behavior during a game. Coaches coach. Did Vince Lombardi point to the stands at Lambeau Field? Did Casey Stengel? Did Red Auerbach?
You know who did this kind of stuff? Richard Nixon. It needs to stop, here. Don’t even try to defend it, because you have no way to do so without placing any sort of reasonable limits on it. UNCGirl has been the only one who has given a decent defense.
And no, we don’t need big guys intimidating opposing fans.
I am ashamed that people from my university believe that it is fine to use physical force or intimidation to corral opposing fans. I certainly never learned approbation of such things at Carolina but then again, I guess I was a liberal A.B. student.
I seriously doubt Dean Smith believed or believes that people at Carmichael should intimidate opposing fans. Honestly, if this is where we are at, then I am very, very disappointed.
I always thought that UNC people were different. Some of the posters sound exactly like the WolfPack fans who applauded Gerald Henderson for protecting the lane against Tyler Hansbrough.
I also appreciate Roy sticking up for his players in situations like this. I do believe incoming HS players would appreciate it too, and may take notice of something like this and say “yeah, I wanna play for that guy”. Again, it is a hard line to toe, as I am kind of like William in the sense that sporting events is not the time for bent-out-of-shape censorship. Again, I think it is up to the UNC fans to make this situation uncomfortable to a disruptive rival’s fan.
William,
The point of the Yahoo Sports reference was that it was a quote from someone who was at the game…Just as “reliable” and “verifiable” as YOUR opinion.
Were you there??? Do YOU know if he was drunk??? Do YOU know if he had a ticket for that section or was simply moving around the lower deck as some others have suggested??? NO…
You don’t KNOW and I don’t KNOW…That is the POINT and that’s what makes this whole argument a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME…
To compare Roy to Nixon just for bringing a belligerent fan to the attention of security is asinine.
What I find HUMOROUS William is you attacking Roy and security about a situation that you KNOW NOTHING about…You weren’t at the game, you weren’t sitting in the section, you don’t know what the fan said previously, all you know is what is being played on 30 second video…
And now, all of a sudden, we have ROGUE security people ejecting people for no reason at all…So, security people are automatically not believed, because of YOUR opinion???
I bet if you go to any sporting event, people are ejected EVERY night for belligerence of some sort and intoxication…You don’t hear about it because it is not videotaped..
I will choose to trust that the security officials judgement and Steve Kirshner’s comments on the scenario, since they were there… If you choose to SURMISE in your mind what happened, by all means go ahead…But it is definitely making a mountain out of a molehill…
Now, I too, am a lifelong Redskins fan. The suing of ticketholders was a separate issue to the ban on banners (which has been rescinded by the way)… The season ticketholders were sued because they entered into 10 year contracts for those tickets and either failed or refused to pay…The issue became a he said/she said scenario because the Redskins insisted those who were sued were given numerous warnings and options on payment plans. Some of those who were sued went to the Washington Post with their sob stories…Who was telling the truth or who was lying??? Who knows, but most of the situations have been worked out now…
But my point in referring to it was that you insisted this situation with the Presbyterian fan and these issues with Redskins fans were similar…I’m still trying to see the similarity, other than each involved fans…Again these situations are in NO WAY alike or comparable…
^Well said Sir
ChuckHeel, the parallel with the Redskins has to do with when corporate interests do not coincide with the interests of students and what some of us might call run of the mill fans. In fact, it was the Washington Post that sought out the individuals who were the primary focus of the articles, not people “crying a sob story.”
So try to get your facts straight. And obviously the policy about banners has been rescinded, just as I stated above, which you probably didn’t bother to read.
People talk about the Maryland game, the night of the storm when all the UNC students at the game were allowed to take the “rich” people’s seats and what a change that made in terms of noise and energy.
Unfortunately, students tend not to be able to afford expensive tickets. So instead, let’s just browbeat the “rich” people into not giving away their tickets ever and embarrass them when they do.
I do not think it is any of Roy Williams’ business who gave away their ticket to the allegedly drunken fan. Trying to embarrass adults in public for doing something Roy doesn’t like seems to me to be the height of arrogance. If I buy a ticket and I can’t use it, I will do with it as I deem fit.
When I was growing up, the UNC basketball team truly belonged to the entire state. They played several games each year, including conference games in Charlotte and also in Greensboro. This meant that often, in Chapel Hill, there might only be four or five home conference games, depending on the number of conference teams. I despise the fact that UNC rarely plays outside of Chapel Hill in-state anymore. I am sure that people living in the Triangle like the new policy, but it is difficult for me to see how it cultivates the entire state the way that the team did during the 60′s and 70′s and into the 80′s, where UNC was still playing home conference games in Greensboro and had the North-South doubleheaders in Charlotte.
UNC makes the schedule. They set the ticket policy and that should be that. Fans don’t need to be browbeaten anymore about not showing up. Remember, many of these people are doctors, lawyers and other professionals, of whom the University should be proud. Sometimes, the truly important things in life get in the way of going to a game, and I am not going to tell someone that they should eat an expensive ticket. Perhaps UNC should have a refund policy for people who can’t make it to certain games or a donation program for children to attend.
The other thing that always happens when we hit these prickly issues is that people attempt to defend a variety of things and refuse to stay on point. The first issue was whether or not Roy had any business pointing towards the stands.
ChuckHeel ignores this completely.
He prefers to focus on the alleged drunken state of the guy in question. I am sure there are tons of people who are over the legal driving limit at every game. If someone is interfering with the enjoyment of others in the sense of obstructing views and the like, certainly they should be removed, whether at the movie theater or at a basketball game. But that is not what instigated all this. What instigated it was the content of his speech. He may have been indeed drunk, but ChuckHeel you have no way of verifying an account from some guy on Yahoo Sports or whether that guy was even at the game.
The main issue here is whether or not Roy should continue to point out unruly fans during basketball games. Apparently, ChuckHeel and some of the others believe that he should.
I don’t think he should and I sincerely doubt Roy ever will again. Basketball should be about the players, primarily. Granted, it was a crummy game but Roy’s action ended up overshadowing completely the victory by his players.
Roy is a great coach and a great recruiter and for the most part, a great man, but lately we have been having some of these “Bill Belichik” type of eruptions which are overshadowing the mostly overwhelmingly positive aspects of his program and career.
A cynic would say, “well what do you expect, Roy has a book out to sell.” Controversy sells.
Some complain that a mountain is being made out of a molehill and that everyone should just get back to basketball.
I thoroughly agree and hope we won’t have another reason to have posts like the ones about Roe, and the incident at the Presbyterean game because they do indeed take the focus away from the players and the game.
I can see having the last word is really important to you?
Thanks for reiterating your point that Carolina basketball was so much better in the past, where everyone dressed like they were going to the opera, while everyone curtsied and invited opposing fans over for tea after the game.
I’m sorry the current basketball environment has become to lowbrow for your taste and certain individuals in the basketball program have the audacity to question the loyalty of big important donors, who might have more important things to do versus other Carolina fans not of the same elk, and actually request these big wigs attend all the home games during a season or give their tickets to a Carolina fan to cheer in their stead.
The schedules for home games are published months and weeks in advance, you would think some of these big donors with important things to do could determine in advance when they might not be able to attend certain games and as a result find a suitable replacement. I know unforeseen circumstances arise, but it is funny that those same types of sudden circumstances never seem to arise for these important people during the big time games.
SCl11, do you even read the entries in their entirety, or do you just use pieces of them as a prop for whatever your point is?
Where does it say that “Carolina basketball was so much better” in the past? Nowhere.
It says that in my opinion, the scheduling pattern in the past served the entire state better in terms of being able to attend games live, which is apparently something important to Roy, that people see the games live. It also says that I understand that people who live closer to Chapel Hill, in the Triangle area might like the current scheduling practice better.
These are matters that reasonable people can disagree on, but taking one position or the other, in no way means that Carolina basketball is necessarily better now or back then. One thing that is very different is that 99% of the games are broadcast now, as opposed to maybe 25% back in the 1970′s. I think most people would definitely prefer having virtually all of the games on television, but when you have that, obviously, it takes away some of the impact from being there live, especially today with HD television and surround sound.
One thing is clear. UNC has never won 2 titles in 5 years before and in that sense, UNC basketball certainly seems better now than it has ever been, at least in terms of on court success.