Some of you are nuts and understand I mean that affectionately.
Before I delve into what happened last night at the game I feel it necessary to address what happened last night on this blog. THF has been in operation for nearly three years and during that time I have never once set forth anything in the way of ground rules about how folks should behave? There were a few reasons for that. The first is keeping standards vague makes running a benevolent dictarship easier since there are no pesky loopholes and I don’t have to explain myself should I decide to crush the life out of your online presence here at THF. Secondly and probably more importantly, it has never been necessary. I have built THF on the premise that civilized and intelligent UNC fans can have a discussion in an online forum without resorting to message board level baiting and meltdowns. It would appear last night I was somewhat mistaken in that premise. Some of that is the frustration over the loss and some of it has to do with the fact there are people who do make positive contributions but also let the worst demons of their nature to take control of their keyboard when the Heels are losing a tough road game. It happens. And I accept full responsibility on my part for allowing certain comments to filter through on the liveblog which I probably should have left unapproved. That is on me and I will endeavor to do better. As for the rest of it. Well I did ban someone for the first time in the history of this site and did so because that individual decided to attack other commenters and then called me out. Again, it happens. I would rather not do it but there is only so much I am willing to put up with given this is a side venture for me and I have bigger fish to fry most of the time. All of that being said, allow me to deal with three specific issues.
1. Attacking other readers of the site is not permitted.
You guys can disagree with one another all you want. You can disagree with me all you want. If you make the mistake Ty Lawson keeps making and turn it into something personal then you will be warned to stop and then if you persist I will remove your account. I actually do not expect this to be an issue since most everyone has been on good behavior during the course of this site’s existence. In terms of how this work on liveblogs, I will not approve comments that are in this vein.
2. Attacking the players and coaches in an overtly negative or insulting manner will not be tolerated.
During the liveblog there were comments like:
DEON THOMPSON IS GARBAGE
I am not sure if this came from an actual UNC fan or a rival fan base’s troll. With the liveblog the same registration system that guards the blog comments is not in play. I have to approve every comment made and that is the nature of some of the stuff I was seeing. The reason this kind of stuff cannot stand is unless you are a former NBA player you have no room or even so much as an ounce of skill enough to call a Division I scholarship player at one of greatest programs in college basketball “garbage.” Yes, he might be playing badly or soft or not in control of his body but the last I checked he still was wearing the words NORTH CAROLINA on his uniform, he still works his rear end of trying to win games for the Tar Heels and to quote Gene Hackman from Hoosiers, “That kind of sacrifice and commitment deserves your respect.” It is easy to sit behind a keyboard and anonymously flail at another individual and a tad cowardly to do so in the manner I saw last night. There are legitimate criticisms to be made. There are real technical parts of the way any player plays that can be discussed at length and some of it involves their failure on the court. However insulting players or talking about them “sucking” is not kosher on this site unless you are referring to Duke players. 
3. Try to remain calm and if you cannot step away from the keyboard.
I know this is difficult and some of that is the fact people react differently to these games. I know Tar Heel Wife chastises me for yelling at the TV and being loud enough to wake the kids during late games. The worst time to starting allowing a thought stream to flow onto your computer screen via your keyboard is if you are really pissed off. That is why my postgame write-ups do not necessarily come as soon as the game is over or if they do I follow-up the next day when I have had time to think about it and post something well thought out and coherent. If you are hopping mad about something and cannot trust what you write to be rational or full of negativity then take some time to cool off then post your comments. The site is not going anywhere.
Here is my bottom line so to speak.
When posting on the internet one must always bear in mind that if you are unwilling to say something to somebody’s face you probably ought to rethink putting it out there. Now I probably violate this guideline some myself but not so much in the respect that I drop personal insults but on very rare occassion. I have always been of the mind that if you cannot make an argument without dropping an insult then you point is worthless to begin with and even if it is not, it is negated by your approach. I believe people can disagree, discuss and generally hash out any issue while being civilized at the same time.
Secondly, if you have read THF long enough you know what this blog is about in terms of temperament. It is clear that I take a vested interest in making this blog as credible as any news organization. It is my intention for the content and discussion to be ground in facts and logic not given so much to the reactionary nature seen on the message board. I would very much like this blog to be a legitimate outlet to discuss UNC football and basketball without all of the extra noise you get on message boards. In that respect maybe I am limiting myself or my readership by being so reasonable when most fan sites are given to cheap shots at rivals or seat of your pants analysis that misses key facts. From where I sit there is a battle being fought between the old and new media. The Old Guard believes bloggers are unaccountable, untrained and generally chaotic with what they are willing to publish. Blogs have been demonized in large part as being cesspools where anything goes and no real analysis or legitimate opinion goes on. I started THF on the premise that the Old Guard is wrong and THF can be a well thought out, very reasonable fan site that is grounded with an “objective bias” i.e. I am biased towards UNC but not to the point I will ever be intellectually dishonest.
Let me also say I understand that what makes this site successful is the numbers on the hit counter and also the high level of discussion people engage in the comments section. It is my goal for this site to grow in numbers but keep the content and interation above the fray so to speak. Any help in achieving this goal would be greatly appreciated.
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Good post, good points, and thanks for all of your work here THF. It’s much appreciated and I love the banter, positive and negative, because it’s backed up with analysis/stats/coherent thoughts by the contributors.
Maybe I could just give a few examples of what I hope we should and should not strive for in communicating on here:
Wrong: Roy Williams is an idiot for losing to BC.
(How does such a statement advance our knowledge of basketball or love of UNC?)
Right: Roy Williams may not have coached his best game against BC and here is what I think he himself might wish he had done differently….
Wrong: Wayne Ellington is a horrible shooter.
(Compared to who or what standard?)
Right: Given his stroke and his percentages in the past, it is puzzling why Wayne is not performing up to what he seems capable.
Wrong: I hate Bobby Frasor.
(who cares?)
Right: I never have thought that Bobby Frasor’s value to the team was as great as Quentin Thomas’s, given Quentin’s better performance at ….
Wrong: What a bunch of chokers we are!
Right: UNC just has not been able to make key timely baskets when they really need to or to get stops when they cannot afford to let the other team score. They don’t seem to have the same ice in their veins as ….
In responding to another commenter, it is probably best not to call them by name to criticize a point they are making. Just lay out some different facts that you believe are stronger for a different opinion. We all have our favorites and will get angry if we feel that our beloved coach or player X has been criticized and that is to be expected.
Yes. That is pretty much what I am saying.
This is a great site and look forward to reading it everyday. Its a great way to be connected with others who love and enjoy something as much as I do. William’s comments sometimes annoy me because he speaks of past games that I know I watched but cannot remember in the details that he does. I guess I wish I had that recall ability. But for the most part I enjoy his and everyone else’s comments. That’s why I keep comming back.
Now back to the Heels. I thought they looked mentally and physically weak last night. I didn’t think the ACC was that strong this year but we’re 0-2. I felt teams might shut down one or two of our players but someone else would step up to fill that void. Now everyone looks out of whack, except DG. Its frustrating to see them not play to their full potential.
I think with the easy start and all the hype the boys got too confident. They have hit a low spot but will pull it together by tournment time. This will not be the dominate season that I thought but this team has too much talent and good coaching to not turn it around.
THF and others, I think it would be good to point out up comming games that would good to watch or to update us on teams to look out for.
I have to give credit to Wake, they did play a good game. That one dunk over Green was very nice.
I was not happy with refs at all, I woke up the kids twice yelling at the TV after a bad call.
My public service announcement. Remember that “fan” is short for fanatic, and by definition fanatics are not always rational. Every time you see a comment on a blog or hear a rant on the radio, preface that with the words “In my opinion…” Finally, remember that sports are entertainment. To paraphrase Dean Smith, “A billion Chinese people don’t care that our team lost.”
But the Chinese have really started following basketball. How about 800 million Indians? They play cricket mostly
LOL
I just love the fact that you have an entire category dedicated to trolls!!! Going back through them was a trip down memory lane, though I think you missed the one where you took Duke-Redick to task!
One thing that I might raise here about all the negativity currently flying about is that there is a lot of discussion on some boards about the animated discussion that Roy Williams and Deon Thompson appeared to be having during a second half time-out. I am not a lip-reader and I am not sure what it was all about, but it does recall for me a certain way that Roy Williams and Matt Doherty actually are more like each other than they are like Dean Smith.
In all the years I watched Dean Smith coach–and I know there are some of you who saw all 36 years and can tell me if this is wrong–I never saw him get into an animated discussion with any players during the game. I can remember an instance where this did happen when Guthridge was coaching and the consequences for the player were rather severe.
I also do not remember Dean ever publicly commenting negatively about a player’s performance or negatively about his own performance as a coach. Roy does seem to do both of these things a fair amount. I don’t think Dean would ever have commented about the Ginyard situation the way that Roy has.
I don’t say any of this to justify badmouthing any coaches or players, but I do find evidence that our last two coaches have both had a much different style from our previous two, and a lot of fans may feel, “hey, if Roy can criticize these guys severely in public, why can’t I?”
It might be something for all of us to think about.
“hey, if Roy can criticize these guys severely in public, why can’t I?”
Because Roy is their coach and spends probably 40 hours a week with these kids, and we watch them on TV for at most, 5 hours a week? (Directed at those same fans, not you, william).
How about this for a coincidence:
1996-97, UNC goes 9-1 in the preseason, loses their first ACC game at Wake, then loses at home to Maryland. Their next game? You guessed it… at Virginia, which, BTW, they lost. They only went 3-2 over there next five, to end the first half of the ACC season 3-5, with an unseemly 12-6 overall record. The good new is, they won their next 15, claiming an ACCT title and a Final 4 birth!
Dean just seemed to have that aura of respect.
Mike O’Koren told a story once where he got called into Dean’s office after being quoted in the newspaper as saying that he disagreed with Smith’s Four Corners strategy against Duke.(Carolina trailed 7-0 at the half in the game he was referring to and ended up losing, somewhat in ridicule, 47-40).
O’Koren said that he was straining to see Smith from across the desk through the clouds of cigarette smoke, when he heard a voice, like the voice of God coming through the clouds, “Mike, you just let us coach the games, and you play, O.K.?”
No yelling, no loud discussion, just a simple command in the form of a question from Dean was enough to put O’Koren back on the straight and narrow.
I very seldomly here K say after a loss, “we need to go back to the drawing board, or he played terrible, or he played with a lack of focus.” He seems, at least from a media standpoint, that he always wants the kids that play for him to be revered in a highly manner. Rarely have I seen him criticize any of his own players, or even himself as a coach. I kind of wish we took the same approach.
I know. Instead of my psychoanalysis of Roy, how about a musical interlude?”
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on
Dont stop believin
Hold on to the feelin
I remember reading the O’Koren story in someone’s book (Chansky’s maybe?) That version included something about Mike running steps in a weighted vest after the talk with Coach Smith. Dean was a carrot AND stick kind of coach–and O’Koren was the sort of player who responded well to that sort of coaching and could later have the good humor to tell the story about himself.
Thank you THF for this wonderful blog. Also thank you for addressing this issue. I was live blogging last night and was disgusted by some of the comments. People were making comments such as “This team is over-hyped and over rated” and “This team sucks at defense”. The same people were at the beginning of the season were saying we were the best team in the nation an were all convinced that we were going to win the NCAA Championship. These people are either: a) fair weather fans or b) jumping on the band wagon. Personally I hate both of these types of people. What happend to “Tar Heel born and Tar Heel Bred” and having faith in your team. I don’t think I will be live blogging anymore due to this issue.
Dean did use the vest, but as far as I can see, no yelling or screaming.
I’ve read 2 of Dean smith’s books…throughout he emphasizes his approach to criticism as always between him and the player. Praise in public…reserve criticism in private consultation.
TFH, many thanks for running the blog and an excellent job of doing so
agreed uncgirl50. i actually had to leave the liveblog and concentrate on the game b/c the liveblog was making me more pissed off. thanks THF for the site. it’s a great distraction from my 10+ hr work days. although i definitely don’t agree with every poster here, i’ve always enjoyed the “standard” that was maintained, which is why i keep coming back to this website. thanks again!
And thanks for remembering about the vest, Yo Mama Sleeps in (not Jeff) Teague. It was in Art Chansky’s book which is a great read.
I missed the liveblog last night due to our kids being here and my son commandeering my pc. I’m sorry to hear that such went on but the outcome just reinforces my ideas about THF and this great site. Yes the most of us do post through Carolina blue glasses. We all have a passion for UNC and the coaches and players. We are greedy, we are spoiled, and given the history of this great university, we have every right to be (within reason of course).
I wouldn’t let what happened stop me from participating in liveblogging. I read comments I agree with as well as those that I don’t. If something inflammatory is said then it’s probably said to get a reaction and I disregard it. As william said……it doesn’t add anything intelligent to the conversation at hand.
My hat is off to THF for a well ran, well thought out, and generally well behaved site. (And for anyone that wants a good example of what we don’t want to be…..head on over to some of our rivals sites).
THF I WANT TO APOLOGIZE TO YOU AND THE TARHEEL FAITHFUL FOR MY COMMENTS LAST NIGHT. I REALLY ENJOYED THE DISCUSSIONS AND YES I’M BORN AND BRED. MY ACTIONS WERE UNEXCUSABLE AND IT WON’T HAPPEN AGAIN. I THINK WE ALL NEED TO SIT BACK AND BE PATIENT THE SHIP WILL BE RIGHTED.
Thanks Big Dawg for offering the apology. Losing brings out some of our worst traits which is why we all need to take a deep breath and set how it plays out. Do continue to drop by and join the discussion.
THF-Thanks very much for the blog…it is excellent reading, nice to get different perspectives from various Heels fans. I think you do a great job of giving synopses on games and the season as a whole. I very much like reading your posts and the articles you dig up from other media outlets.
It has been a frustrating 7-8 days of the season, but I’m keeping the faith in Roy and the boys to move forward and finish the season strong. GO HEELS!
THF,
Some of the best news I got today was when I perused Carolina’s remaining schedule. There is only one game left that appears on FoxSportsNet. I think I can speak for all Carolina fans when I say AMEN to that!!
For some reason, Carolina tends to play poorly on Fox. Last year they played bad against Clemson and had to rally to win on an Ellington jumper. This season both losses occurred on their network.
I know it is a silly superstition, but I think Carolina is going to do well the rest of the way.
I do think that Carolina fans, in general, tend to be TOO NEGATIVE after a loss. It is what teams do with those losses and if they improve that makes them better.
Under Roy, Carolina tends to improve its play after losses and learns from them. Under Matt Doherty and to a lesser extent, Bill Guthridge, Carolina tended to remain the same throughout with no improvement during the season. The same mistakes you saw November, you saw in March.
The Heels’ biggest problem last night was that their shots didn’t fall, plain and simple. And I’m not talking about the three’s, I’m talking about layups and short jumpers inside.
If they improve that, which I think they will, Carolina is still the odds on favorite to win it all.
I think part of the reason UNC fans are too negative after losses is because we don’t have enough practice… I mean, just look how nonchalantly State fans absorb a loss!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
That nearly put diet coke all over my monitor!
Well said C. Michael.
I think all the build-up creates frustration, too. Maybe Carolina fans didn’t necessarily expect an undefeated season but they didn’t expect things to just implode without warning like that.
The media monster truly has two heads now, Duke and UNC and I am sure that some fans get tired of hearing about us.
On the other hand, I think in every sport, whether it is the Celtics and Lakers, or the Yankees and Red Sox or the Cowboys and whoever else is good in their division that year, dynasties and rivalries create intense interest in the sport. People tune in just to see Duke or UNC lose and it is an obvious compliment to our program and Duke’s program.
One thing that I will say to the Wake fans, that I am stealing from Duke fans who chant it when they play Maryland, or at least they used to when Maryland was really good:
“You are not our rivals!”
William,
That’s what I’m talking about right there. How did the season implode? The Heels are 14-2 and ranked No. 5 in the country. In their 14 teams wins, no one got within 15 points of them. The blew out Mich. State, Notre Dame, Kentucky…
Like I said, some Carolina fans, like my Aunt, tend to want to jump off a bridge whenever Carolina loses a game.
Reality has always been, North Carolina was not going to go undefeated. In 1982 they had two losses both in the conference, 1993 they had four losses, three in the conference and in 2005 they had four losses, three in the conference. But, each of those teams won the national championship. Carolina can still win the national championship.
How has the season imploded after only two conference losses? Explain your logic…
You are right, it hasn’t. I am just talking about the perception.
The 1982 team only lost one game with its line-up intact, but it was a whopper where they got killed by Virginia. They also had to go to overtime to beat Penn State, who was not a basketball power.
The 2005 lost to the national runners-up, GIT, in a somewhat meaningless game and also on the road against two top five teams. The Santa Clara game defies comprehension, even without Felton.
In 1993, both of the losses to Wake and Duke were avenged in easy wins. Once again, the loss that year to GIT was somewhat meaningless.
I follow basketball as much as anyone and I tend to forget the absurd results that Carolina teams have had through the years: the loss to William & Mary by one of Phil Ford’s teams; the almost invariable losses to mediocre Wake teams in the early 70’s.
In 1967, UNC went to the Final Four. On February 17th they played South Carolina in Charlotte and torched them 80-55. Only two weeks later they played them in Columbia, and lost 70-57. What the heck happened there? You can find very similar types of things all through out their history. Perhaps there is just so much more coverage of things that we lose perspective.
William,
Also don’t forget the 1982 team barely beat James Madison by two points in the first round of the tournament. The 1993 was taken to the brink by Cincinnati in the East Regional Finals. In 2005 they also got blown out by Wake Forest. Got taken to the brink by Clemson in the first round of the tournament and got beat the next day by Ga Tech. They also almost blew a 10 point lead to Villanova in the Sweet 16 and gave up almost 80 points to Wisconsin, which definitely wasn’t an offensive juggernaut.
I think with Roy Williams’ style of play, especially ont he defensive end, Carolina is going to have games where they give up numbers to team that shouldn’t get those numbers, i.e., BC. But, in the long run, Carolina will be battle tested once the tournament rolls around and I think they’ll win it this year.
It also important to remember that the NCAA Tournament is about matchups and how the bracket breaks. For all we know UNC might get a favorable path through via upsets or the general poor play of another team.
I tend not to count the results in the ACC tourney since those actually often mean less than regular season games for programs like Carolina and Kansas in the Big 8-12.
I think the 2005 Heels had zero desire to play Duke again a week later when they were still trying to get McCants back into the line-up. 1993 shows the dangers of trying too hard in the ACC tourney where we lost Phelps in the Semi’s but luckily he was back for the NCAA tourney.
Dean tended not to focus on the tournament, which he said made Carolina’s defeat in 1987 to NC State in the finals so heartbreaking, because he said, “we were emphasizing the ACC tournament this year.”
Some years, like 1997, 1998, and 2007, an ACC tourney win was needed for a number one seed and the Heels came through great. Other years, like 1984, 1987, 1993, 2005, and 2008, the Heels obviously had the seed wrapped up and generally didn’t do so well in the ACC tourney.
Why should we care very much about the ACC tourney most of these years where it is essentially meaningless if Roy and Dean don’t? Try to win it but don’t dive for balls or do anything dangerous, and if you win, great. Unfortunately, this year, we might need to win it to get a number one or two seed.