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McAdoo, Hairston Impress In All-American Game

I know it is just an high school all star game but both future Tar Heels acquitted themselves quite well in the McDonald’s All-American game.

Power forward James McAdoo was named co-MVP of the game alongside Kentucky’s Michael Gilchrist. McAdoo scored 17 points on a variety of shots from alley-oop dunks to a three pointer. During the game ESPN senior recruiting analyst Dave Telep(aka the most trusted man in the basketball recruiting world) tweeted:

I think James McAdoo is one of only a handful of guys in this game who could legitimately carry a team early in college

Scout.com’s top analyst Evan Daniels also had good things to say about McAdoo.

The McAdoo we saw all week is surfacing. He can knock down jump shots or do damage inside. Major weapon on the way to Chapel Hill.

Daniels also said this prior to the game.

James McAdoo has been great most of the week. He’s advanced physically & athletically. He’s had some big moments during the East’s practices

The impressive part of McAdoo’s performance was the quiet, workmanlike manner he went about scoring. In my opinion the big men have to work harder in these games to score because they don’t handle the basketball much. Perimeter players can tend to dominate the ball but McAdoo got himself in position to score, showed a nice shot and at one point stole a perimeter pass and went down for a dunk. McAdoo will be a upgrade over Justin Knox coming off the bench(assuming everyone stays) given his size and versatility.

Shooting guard P.J. Hairston has the “shooting” part down. Hairston had 15 points and buried at least three 3-pointers from NBA range or beyond. One of the threes was from 25 feet easy. Of course he also missed badly on a couple of threes from that range but the point is Hairston can shoot the ball. Translating to college will be a challenge but from what I have seen Hairston is athletic and I also think might be a good defender. I think his shot will be there providing he learns a thing or two about good shot selection. If everyone returns, Hairston could be a Danny Green-like threat coming off the bench. I also think he is going to push Leslie McDonald and Reggie Bullock to improve their games.

Based on Twitter traffic I know Kendall Marshall was watching, probably with a towel so he could continually wipe the drool off his mouth. He has to be thinking, “More scorers to pass to! 300 assist season here I come!”

If everyone comes back, UNC was going to be lethal anyway. These two will make them leathalier. Yeah, I made a word up. Live with it.

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99 comments to McAdoo, Hairston Impress In All-American Game

  • TarHeel8486

    Both these kids get it. Plain and simple.

    Hairston showed some great athleticism tipping balls on the offensive rebounding end as well. With a healthy Reggie and Dexter to go along with PJ our wings to go along with the Jedi Knight and our bigs…

    W. O. W.

  • gjc3hy

    i didnt get a chance to watch much of any of the game, but what is anyone’s impression of the duke basketball players to come?

  • Analogy: Adding McAdoo and Hairston to the team (if everyone is back) is what the 2005 team would have been had JR Smith not gone to the NBA and JameSon Curry had not tried his hand at botany…

  • Andy In Omaha

    Didn’t get a chance to watch the game….based on what was seen out of McAdoo, can he fill in for Henson defensively?

  • ^As a rebounder? Yes.

    As a shot blocker/changer? Very few in the NBA can do that.

  • Austin Rivers is very good. He can shoot, he is a scorer and he will also be as hated as Reddick and Laettner because is a Duke player in every sense of the word.

    Marshall Plumlee is just like his brothers only taller. His offensive game might be a tad better but his hands were awful in this game and he already knows how to set those screens with his feet well beyond the width of his shoulders. He’ll fit right in.

  • It should be said that even if the Big Three leave, what I saw last night tells me UNC will still be a good team. Might not go to the Final Four or win a title but it won’t be 2010.

  • Heel in Purple

    CM, did we take QT b/c JamesOn was dumb, or were we trying to bring in a 4 man class anyway?

    I really think both players can help us on defense right now. McAdoo has shown he can rebound, and him getting into passing lanes means he can move his feet well enough to guard on the perimeter. I loved what I saw from Hairston. He was attacking the glass, shooting. He also was challenging the bigs on defense. He caused a turnover by being physical with Anthony Davis as well as another big. Bodes well that he isn’t scared of anyone.

  • faustus1500

    I am of the opinion that Hairston will replace Barnes in the starting lineup if the Black Falcon goes to the Association. Zeller and Henson will probably stay.

  • ^^4-man class. All 4 signed LOI in November of 2003, and then Curry got arrested (and released) that following February

  • LarryS

    I really like both of these recruits. And, man, Hairston is one strong-looking kid. I hope he’s a good FT shooter because, with that leg kick he has, you would think he might get to the line alot.

  • unc steph

    This if off topic but did anyone else see that Kentucky is already being investigated becasue JZ was in their locker room after the win against us. JZ is co owner of some pro team and this may have violated some rules. I saw it early on WTVD 11 here in NC.

  • ^^Yeah, mixed feelings about that. It will certainly benefit the Heels, but after years of bashing Dookies for kicking their legs to draw fouls on 3-pointers, I will feel like kind of a hypocrite being happy about it…

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    ^^It would make sense. I remember at the UNC Alumni game last year that the current team was not there because it would have been some sort of NCAA violation for UNC to be arranging for them to be around current active NBA Coaches. I would think that Owners and GMs would be covered by that same rule.

  • steph,

    It is not Kentucky that is being investigated, it is Jay-Z. Jay-Z is a part owner of the NJ/Brooklyn Nets, so he may have violated league rules (the NBA is doing the investigation), but the UK players did not.

    What is interesting is that the video of Jordan talking to the Tar Heels (and Singler) in Charlotte should be a violation, too, though maybe there is a difference between a “chance” meeting in a garage, and actively entering a locker room.

  • LarryS

    Same here, about the mixed feelings on the leg kick. A lot of it depends, I suppose, on whether that’s always been a player’s shooting motion, or something he started doing once he was coached up.

    As far as shooting technique it doesn’t seem to be desirable, but neither does it seem to hurt his effectiveness….just so it goes in the hole.

  • “A lot of it depends, I suppose, on whether that’s always been a player’s shooting motion, or something he started doing once he was coached up.”

    Perfect, you have now assuaged my guilt! It’s PJ’s natural stroke. That’s my story, and I am sticking to it!!

  • TarHeelWu

    Assuming everyone stays, we will finally have legit blue & white teams to battle each other in practice instead of the starters going up against Blue Steel. The competition level in practice will be much higher and more intense which we will probably see transfer to game day w/less mental lapses that led to us squandering leads game after game.

    And we will have experienced upperclassmen who are not curmudgeons that will guide the incoming freshmen well.

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    “A lot of it depends, I suppose, on whether that’s always been a player’s shooting motion, or something he started doing once he was coached up.”

    As long as it goes in the basket I don’t care how he shoots it

  • You can also say he was doing it before he got to UNC and it was not taught to him by the head coach as part of their cheap, underhanded manner of playing basketball.

  • TarHeelWu

    @ gjc: While Austin Rivers appeared to force the issue in going for mvp IMO and took some bad shots and committed turn overs, his elite talent level is obvious. He can shoot from range and get to the basket easily. He also throws excellent passes w/a quick trigger. His attitude may be a weakness. When things don’t go his way, his body language is terrible. Hope to see bad body language from him as much as possible next year ;-D

    Quin Cook is good. Can dribble penetrate. Good passer. Good shooter. Not sure what his D is like.

    Marshall Plumlee..didn’t belong in an all-star game. I don’t think his offense is better than Mason’s at all. He will most likely make his impact on D while he develops on the offensive end.

  • Heel To The End

    ^ a LOT of internet chatter that Rivers is a brat, basically.
    son of a coach, and a selfish attitude? yeah, we’ll pass.

    and i dont want fouls drawn on a legkick 3 for any reason.

    off topic,
    the NCAA is about to get real busy with football violations, huh? all sorts of pay-for-play accusations coming out.
    kinda makes a trip to Disneyland with a friend and alum look like exactly what it was…nothing.

    Roy is on 99.9 right now.

  • TarHeelWu

    Yup, got Roy on myself.

    Re: Rivers, potential Joseph Forte scenario but Rivers is more talented and will be in a more stable situation than we had at the time.

  • 4daHeel of it

    Slightly off topic but has anyone seen any news about Desmond Hubert? He seemed like a lock to go to UNC a few days ago but also seems to be waiting on NBA decisions. As CM mentioned McAdoo does not seem to be as good of a defensive presence so I would like to get this kid for the 2012 team if we have another evacuation.

  • ^I have to assume he is waiting to see if Jordan Williams stays in the draft, or if Henson/Zeller enter it.

  • TarHeelWu

    I live in MD..from what I’m hearing Jordan Williams is gone. Doesn’t like going to class and probably isn’t particularly fond of his team either.

  • Heel To The End

    so he’d rather go to Maryland? sad.

  • rathskellar68

    If all three stay, then, with (1) Marshall’s natural improvement, especially in driving and finishing; (2) Strickland’s having found himself, which we’ve seen over the last ten days; (3) Bullock’s return to health and to the player we recuited but saw in shape only very briefly; (4) McDonald’s improved and more unselfish play toward the last third of the season; and (5) McAdoo and Hairston coming in off the bench, we will win the NC.

    Yes, I know, you can have a bad game at the wrong time and there are match-ups and luck and the ever-present “parity,” etc., but if those five things happen, we cut down the nets. It will be just like 2009. We had more talent than everyone else from the pre-season forward; everyone knew it and predicted that we would finish first; and, in fact, we waltzed through the NCAAT, with only LSU being even marginally a close game.

    Next year is the same. Hold me to it.

    P.S. What difference does it make what happens at the Other Place? I don’t care if they have Rivers or Schmivers or whoever. The only relevant question is whether our team has the goods, and the answer is yes.

  • bluesteelrules

    First time posting on here. I just recently signed up for an account, but I have read the threads the entire basketball season. I just wanted to take a minute and say thanks to everyone on here, especially THF. I have really enjoyed reading the conversation and insight of my fellow Tarheel fans. I hated to see this year end and I got physically sick when they lost to KY. My wife said I am more invested emotionally in Carolina basketball than I am our marriage. LOL I do believe that our “Big 3″ are coming back, and we should be a force to reckon with next year with the addition of Mcadoo and Hairston. I look forward to talking with you all from hear on out.

  • TarHeelWu

    @ rathskellar: I’m *almost* there with you. Taking your assumptions, the 2011-12 Tar Heels do not match up to the offensive fire power of the 2009 team. They could match up defensively and be better since the ’09 squad decided to wait until the tournament to play real D.

    And we still have to see how the rotations will work out next season.

    I do agree that it’s not about any other team. If our guys play to their potential, a title run is a definite possibility.

  • ^^^The only problem with this is that it is possible that the gap between UNC and everyone else will be much smaller than it was in 2009. A lot can/will change between now and May 8th, but right now, based on the assumption that every underclassman comes back (with the exception of guys like Kemba Walker, who have already graduated and had their “Senior Day,” or have already declared) then I would rank the top teams as follows:

    1. Kentucky: Lose Harrelson but bring in easily the #1 class in the country. Teague/Knight arguably the best backcourt in the country.
    2. UNC: Replace Knox with McAdoo (big upgrade) and add Hairston. If shooting develops, could be scary good.
    3. OSU: Losing Deibler and Lighty hurts a lot.
    4. Texas: Bring a ton back, plus add Myck Kabongo.
    5. Kansas: Only lose Reed and Morningstar
    6. Duke: Great backcourt, but still not sold on the Plumlees.

  • TarHeelWu

    @ C. Michael: I think there’s a good chance Knight may leave this year but we’ll see but they’ll still have Leggit and Lamb w/all the additions you mentioned above.

    I might put Texas above OSU since Tristan Thompson said he’s coming back.

    I also think Kansas’ Morris twins are thinking seriously about entering the draft.

    Agreed on the gap being smaller than in 2009. They had been battle tested with an Elite 8 (2007) and Final Four (2008). Hopefully the 2012 Heels can speed up that learning curve.

  • agree with CM^ if there is a lockout and every underclassman returns then we’re top 5 but probably not favored over UK b/c their class is ridiculous. however if our guys come back and roy’s recruiting pays off (getting high quality guys who *also* want to develop IN COLLEGE) then we’re hands down #1 while calipari’s one and done system keeps churning top draft picks but *fingers crossed* no NC’s. same thing goes for OSU and Texas b/c both will be nice with sullinger, jordan hamilton and Tristan Thompson all coming back.

    i don’t really mind Rivers that much, he’s so polished in terms of the business of the game of basketball that i think there is less than a 1% chance he stays for more than one year.

  • +hopefully KU loses the Morris Twins and Thomas Robinson….here’s to hoping there is no NBA lockout, that could really throw a wrench in our plans of getting better players who also stay longer….it would basically make UK a short term powerhouse

  • ^^^Agreed on Texas, in terms of talent. But I think Matta is the better coach, so I gave them the bump.

    With UK, I think Jones is the most likely of the freshmen to jump. Knight is definitely the best, but he is also a 4.0 student who, because of AP-credits, is actually finishing his sophomore year academically. He seems like the type who may go the Jay Williams route and graduate in 3-years.

    Also agree about the Morris-twins; this was based solely on who has declared right now, but it is obviously unrealistic to think that is how it will stay.

  • LarryS

    I’m kind of wondering what Justin Watts is thinking about all this right now, in terms of everyone coming back.

    Is it still possible he plays the 4 spot any, like he did this year?

  • agree re: 2009 v 2012 but i think 2012 (if these contingencies come to fruition in our favor) has more lottery talent….Henson, Zeller, Black Falcon, McAdoo are all potential lottery picks, Hairston and Bullock will round out into first rounders like Wayne Ellington. 2009 was 1 lottery pick right? (ty was just outside of lottery or did he sneak in there)? two if you count ed davis

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    If Kentucky does not have a mass exodus to the NBA this year then it will be interesting to see how that will effect their 2012 recruiting class. The big selling point for Kentucky is the assumption that you come in and step into the starting lineup right away, or at least still get tons of minutes even if you aren’t a starter. That can’t happen if lots of guys are coming back for a 2nd year. For recruits that Kentucky is targetting in 2012, the roster might end up looking too full for them to be as interested in UK as they would otherwise have been.

  • good point @850….this throws a wrench in cal’s system and it will be interesting to see how that would pan out….i mean otherwise how long can his merry go round of 1 and dones last with no championships? shoot, i hope “no championships” is still in effect after this monday.

  • lviveiros

    I thought Thompson from Texas was leaving?? Did he change his mind.

  • CarMichael

    People really ought to know better than to say any team “will win” the national championship. The best team usually doesn’t win and shouldn’t be expected to win, at least not since John Wooden retired. The best team has a 20% chance, or at most a 30% chance if they are a dominant #1 team. The tournament is a crapshoot with the dice only slightly loaded in favor of the best team. College basketball is one of the least predictable sports-take a look at your bracket.

  • lviveiros

    watching espu highschool bb..espnrise Joell James..big body center and i belive he is on recruiting board??

  • lviveiros

    commentators on espu were just talkign about McAdoo. ” James Worthy Like” will make instant impact coming in off the bench for UNC.

    So hoping everyone comes back, becasue we thought this team was fun to watch…Next season will be insane ,lethal and entertaining.
    Anderson kid going to Maryland, can take him off UNC board..

  • TarHeelWu

    @lviveiros: the reports I read said he was definitely going back to school. Wants to play w/Kabongo.

  • Heel To The End

    Isaiah Thomas of Washington says he’s going into the draft, and wont return to school no matter what.
    well, ok then.

    off topic again, but with no Barnes (Rick), Miller, or Donovan, and with Buzz Williams signing a new deal…are all of NCState’s eggs in the Shaka Smart basket?
    i’m fairly impressed with their run, but after the job requirements Yow put out there, is it really a good idea to go all-in with a guy who’s basically had two fantastic weeks?
    seems risky. but maybe he’ll be another Brad Stevens. or Dean Smith.

  • textual heeling

    “I would rank the top teams as follows:
    1. Kentucky: Lose Harrelson but bring in easily the #1 class in the country. Teague/Knight arguably the best backcourt in the country.”

    I agree 100% (well, actually I’d put us 1, UK #2, but I think they are our primary rival next year. If Irving leaves, Duke won’t even be in the conversation (which is not to say they won’t be capable of beating us, particularly at Cameron). But I really think the year is going to mirror ’05. A UNC-Kentucky championship game would probably be one of the highest rated in history…

  • lviveiros

    espnu just reported that Isiah Thomas declaring but not hiring an agent. I did not catch the part of not going back to school..

  • faustus1500

    I think Teague and/or Gilchrist may change their mind about Kentucky if there is a NBA lockout. Davis is a project as is Wltjer.

  • lviveiros

    fautus do you say that becasue of all the log jam of players at UK ?

  • faustus1500

    Yes. If you are a one and done player like Gilchrist or Teague why be someone’s caddy.

  • I would suggest the following:

    These two will make them (more) leathalier. “Savor it. Enjoy it. Get used to it.”

    Mixing in the live blog of NCSU versus VT adds to the subtle moment of indiscretion i my mind.

    (((The only question I have at this point is tied to the composition of “leathalier”. Feels like leather meets lethal, so tough and deadly with an “ier” thrown in so it’s a verb.))) Please clarify THF.

  • “I think Teague and/or Gilchrist may change their mind about Kentucky if there is a NBA lockout. Davis is a project as is Wltjer.”

    They all signed LOI, so even if they do change their mind, UK would have to grant them their release (not gonna happen). And I’d hardly call Davis a project: depending on the service, he is either the #1, #2, or #3 player in the country.

    @lviveiros: with respect to Tristan Thompson, there is another Tristan Thompson at North Texas (what are the odds?) who is a senior, and I think that is where the confusion lies.

  • lviveiros

    thanks C. Michael.

  • lviveiros

    Any word on when the boys may let fans now about their plans?? Knowing this group becasue they like to have fun may tell us tomorrow on April 1

  • partsman5521

    Why would the boys even be thinking about leaving this year. Looks like with them back and add PJ and Mac that this would be the best chance at a NC.

  • faustus1500

    C. Michael,

    It depends on how old they were when they signed the LOI. Remember special rules for contracts with minors.

    Davis, from what I have seen is Deja Vu of John Henson. A wiry forward who became a tall due to a major growth spurt. Remember, going into last season I heard scouts calling Henson, Durantesque due to his length, handles, and range. Henson has been great, but I wouldn’t even put him in the same category of Durant. As we have seen they are two different kinds of players.

  • AZACCFan

    Whatever happens next year the program is back and really strong.

    There is going to be a huge hole if the front line leaves, but it just is not going to happen.

    If Barnes were leaving, he would already have made an announcement.

  • TarHeel8486


    I believe you are a Chicagoan, correct? If so, I’d assume you know a good amount about A Davis.

    What makes you say he is a project?

    I think theyre are several top 20 players that are far more un-polished than Davis and I think he makes an impact from day 1 and is a top 5 pick in next years draft.

  • TarHeel8486

    I am from Chicago and have followed Davis as he has sky rocketed up the charts.

    I also was at the game last night and he is very impressive in person.

    McAdoo is a freaking stud and seems to have such a great attitude. Doesn’t try to get flashy at all and totally plays within himself. Even though it being the Mcd AA game he took good shots, shots he is used to and feels comfortable with and I think he will kill teams moving without the ball next year.

    We all know Jedi is gonna find him where he likes the ball and whether its flaring out of screens or around the hoop he seems deadly from anywhere inside 20 feet.

    As Bart Scott would say…CANT WAIT.

  • partsman5521

    How do you think Barnes or Henson would feel if this happens, z stays and the team somehow wins the NC next year? I see no way anybody leaves this year. One more year, win it all, go to the bank. That’s what’s going to happen folks. I can’t wait for November to get here……..

  • faustus1500


    I guess I am looking at it from a pro standpoint. As far as one and dones, I would say that Davis he needs more than one to two years. NBADraft.net does not even have him listed. DraftExpress has him listed in the Top 5, but they also have a very raw Patric Young right after him. Remember, it is potential not what you can actually do. The players they compare him to do make me shudder.

  • ^And of course, who knows what the new CBA will say about eligibility. Could stay at one year, could go back to the way it was, or it could become more like baseball/football. All depends on which side (owners or players) wants to use that as a bargaining chip.

  • TarHeel8486

    I just think in terms of what raw skills “project big men” are lacking - davis really isnt.

    I mean, he was the primary guard on his team and still a top 100 recruit. Very similar to John Henson in that he used to be a guard and then miraculously grew a foot taller (ive heard he did it in about half the time Henson did) and by all accounts hes a better ball handler, shooter, and tougher than Henson was at that point - by a wide margin.

    I was incredibly pissed when I found out he was going to kentucky because he just seems like a lock to dominant to me.

  • C.michael the eligibility scenario I’m hearing that I like is “none or three.” The kid has the option of either coming out directly from high school into the NBA or committing to at least 3 yrs if he goes to school on scholarship. That gives the true hardship cases the right to get a job, but gets rid of one & done.

    I’m hoping the lure of a national championship combined with CBA uncertainty will bring the big three back next year. The kids got close enough for a real taste and would be a top pick to win it all next year.

    I think Barnes is most likely to return. I can’t see the competitive kid with tears in his eyes at the end of the UK game just picking up his marbles and turning pro.

  • ^In theory, I like the baseball model (none or three); however, my problem with it is that it is an apple-to-oranges when talking about MLB and the NBA/NFL.

    In baseball, every year each club drafts a number of players that is equal to 200% of their major league roster. They have a fully developed minor-league system, and they pay their draftees much less, so it is much more affordable (though still risky) to draft kids out of HS based on potential.

    With basketball (and football), team draft picks account for only 13% of the roster and are expected to contribute immediately. Drafting a player on potential and missing can have disastrous effects on a team going forward.

    I understand the hardship argument, but it doesn’t really move me. How is this any different than a young, struggling chemist or business major who, while clearly talented and probably capable of doing the work, must still obtain at least a BS/BA, and in many cases a graduate degree, before they are eligible to be hired? If an organization feels, through experience, that a certain level of post-high school education/maturation is necessary to best prepare an individual for success, the it is really hard to argue against that. I don’t see why the NBA should be held to different standards (in terms of not being able to require minimum levels of education/experience) than most other professions.

  • Completely agree. If I’m going to let someone run my business, I want to make sure they are educated in every facet of it, and have exercised keen decision making before taking the reigns. If the NBA collectively feels that HS is enough, so be it. If they feel that 3 years is necessary, so be it. It’s their business and they can run it however they see fit.

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    ^But if the NBA institutes a “none or three” rule what does THAT mean? Someone fresh out of HS is qualified, but somebody who has been … tainted(?)… by 2 years of college is not qualified, but stick around for a 3rd year and then you are as qualified as the guy who didn’t go to college or as you were before you decided to go to college because no years in college is a good thing, one or two years of college is a bad thing but a 3rd or 4th year is ok?

  • faustus1500

    Who knows maybe Davis is a better prospect than Henson? I remembering watching highlights of Henson in high school and thinking this guy was going to be a great “small” forward for the Heels.

  • joemags52

    There is so much anticipation with this announcement it is like after the 2008 season, where you knew with Hansbrough coming back it could be a good season but with Ellington and Lawson coming back it could be a special season. I think this announcement holds the same for these 3 if they don’t come back it could be a good season but if they do it could be special and I think Barnes could be scary good next year, I think he is going to come back on a mission to win the chip

  • ^^^It’s not about being “tainted,” it’s about maturation. Every once in a while, there are players who are physically and mentally mature enough, and also have a polished enough game, to make the jump to the NBA, but the number of players who fit these criteria is very, very small.

    In most cases, going to college will allow both their bodies and games to develop against equally talented/mature players under a far less grueling schedule. One of the best ways to guarantee injury and stifle development is to have someone try to grow while playing 82 games against men who are much more physically developed.

    If the NBDL were a more legitimate development system (every team had their own feeder team or teams), and the NBA draft was expanded to 20 or 30 rounds, then it would make much more sense to draft players out of high school or 1 year of college.

  • joemags52

    I would like to see “2 or none” personally, the 1 and done is a joke you only have to go to college for 1 semester and then you are done, I think 2 years is a long enough time to stay in college and then decide if you are ready to leave or not, I do think that players should be able to go straight to the NBA or not.

  • As a fan, I’d like to see kids have to go to college for 4 yrs, but that’s not going to happen

    I see “none or three” as the least evil and best practical solution. Although I think it often helps, you don’t have to have a college education to play effectively in the NBA. See: “Lebron.” I also think that some kids have no business even going to college because their attendance is a sham & a farce, even in this age of supposedly stricter academic requirements. Better they don’t go at all.

    And I think “hardship” is a valid criteria. If a kids family is broke, and maybe he has a child at 18, he should be able to provide for them. And of course, there are lots of examples of people who are very successful who either didn’t go to college, or got little or nothing out of it.

    If an NBA club thinks a kid is too raw, uneducated, or stupid coming out of HS, they don’t have to draft him. I think the NBA has learned some lessons over the past 15 years and aren’t as likely to take as many raw talented kids as they used to.

    The down side of “none or three” is obvious. Some very talented kids will turn pro that we’d really like to see play in college, but that number will be quite small in practice. And, as I said, one and done is often a farce. I’d be willing to give up a few HS players to the NBA each yr to keep the rest in college for at least 3 years. That’s a quantum leap better than the state of college basketball today.

  • LarryS

    I would be very surprised to see the NBA adopt the none-or-three rule.

    First, it seems to be in the league’s best interest, ownership and players, to get the very best, most attractive, and exciting players into the league as soon as possible. I would assume this makes the overall product more marketable and both sides benefit.

    Second, I’ve yet to see enough concrete evidence that an extra year or two greatly benefits the very best players, considering their entire careers, to the extent that they should remain in school for longer periods. It may in fact be true, and I know many people feel this way, but I don’t think it’s been substantiated over a large study.

  • joemags52

    So what current freshman do you think would have gone straight to the pro’s if the 3 and done or 2 and done were in place? Kyrie Irving, Terrence Jones, Enes Canter any one think of anyone else

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    C.Michael - I understand your argument, but the NBA contradicts that with a one and done rule (was Ed Davis significantly stronger his Sophomore year then he was in Freshmen year?) or contradicts it even further if they go with a 3 or none rule.

  • faustus1500

    I think minor basketball can not work as well as minor league baseball. One major problem in the NBDL is that there quite a few tweener guards who do well against that level of competition$ In a lot of ways it is like college. It is harder to develop players because your offense and defense is more dependent on what other players on the court do.

  • faustus1500

    I have to say that Blake Griffin improved significantly from his freshman to his sophomore year. It could mean the difference between good and great. It depends on the player and what they plan to do with their time before they go to the pros. There are some players who don’t need college but for others it is nice to have that other option.

  • faustus1500

    One benefit of eliminating the one and done rule is that Calipari will be less successful.

  • LarryS

    “I have to say that Blake Griffin improved significantly from his freshman to his sophomore year. It could mean the difference between good and great.”

    Most players improve a good bit from their freshman to sophomore years. But I doubt this could be used as a primary argument for Blake Griffin being great, versus just good.

    The extra year didn’t make him explode to the basket any quicker, or give him the ability to jump higher. It probably improved his fundamentals and overall knowledge of the game, but who’s to say he wouldn’t have improved at the same rate in the NBA. Maybe the year watching and learning on the sidelines, while sitting out his first year in the league, had as much or more to do with his great rookie year.

    A lot of things contribute to a player’s evolution as a pro, and it’s just too imprecise to single out one aspect as the primary determinant of how good someone gets.

  • Raj,

    I agree that the 1-and-done rule is a farce, but a 3-year rule is much different. Men mature an incredible amount between the ages of 18 and 21, so a person finishing their 3rd year of college is going to be much different than they were coming out of HS. I think a great example of this will be the comparison of the careers of Brandan Wright and John Henson (assuming Henson stays one more year). Though very underdeveloped overall, Wright was arguably more developed (game and physicality) coming out of HS than Henson was, but I would be willing to bet that Henson has a more productive career than Wright, simply because he will enter the league more physically mature than Wright did.

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    I think the whole thing should be simplified as follows:

    After High School, get a job or get a degree. (in other words: welcome to the world everybody else lives in)

    Players should be allowed to enter the NBA draft straight out of High School.

    If they decide to accept a scholarship at a school instead then they should have to work, in earnest, towards earning a degree… just like everybody else the school has given a scholarship to.

    The latter would not be an NBA rule, why would they care? Rather it should be a rule instituted by the NCAA who, IMO, needs to make itself useful again and remind the NBA that these sports programs are backed by ACADEMIC institutions and it is not the role of those institutions to serve as refugee camps for kids who need somewhere to go for one year or three years because of some rule that the NBA passes.

  • I also think the NCAA and NBA need to work together to create a mechanism to allow these kids to enter the draft but still retain eligibility for college. A kid coming out of high school should have all the options on the table including college if the NBA drafts him in the second round. The NBA won’t go for this because they have enough issues with international players choosing not to come they won’t risk someone like Harrison Barnes not wanting to go to the Clippers.

  • LarryS

    I think we need to be honest about why high-profile schools offer scholarships to high-profile basketball players ….and it’s not about wanting the players to get a great education.

    And it’s also not like they’re a servant to the NBA by training its future employees and giving them media exposure to enhance their marketablility. College basketball success is big business for the institutions, and very important for its fans and alumni, and the players give at least as much as they get, if not more, for all the demands on them, and expectations of them.

    I mean do we really want all these players to come back the next year more because we’re concerned with their educations, and enhancing the potential success of their pro careers, than wanting to regain dominance over Duke and possibly win a national championship?

  • faustus1500

    I guess it improved Griffin’s first NBA contract. It is one thing to be able to do things in practice and another to them in a game situation. A player has more opportunities to use new things they learned in practice in a college game than a pro game. Who knows maybe Griffin would have come out as a great power forward out after his freshman year? I think it is more likely that he would have played a more limited role earlier in his career and emerge later on. The jump his game between freshman and sophomore year was significant.

  • LarryS

    That, it did.

  • faustus1500

    Oh I agree LarryS, while I enjoy the fact that McAdoo, Zeller, Henson, and Barnes are outstanding citizens it is the fact they are great players which makes it impressive. I mean how many of us tolerated McCants because he was a great player at UNC and helped lead us to a title?

  • Heel To The End

    no banner for you, Nolan!

  • 850inExile aka UNC RAJ

    Haven’t seen Jimmer play that much. Is he really more deserving of NPOY then Nolan Smith or Kemba Walker?

  • Nolan and Kemba will probably make better pros, but Jimmer is an amazing college player. NPOY

  • My problem with Jimmer versus Nolan Smith is he does not play a lick of defense. Now you could argue Nolan Smith does not play legal defense but he does bring it on both ends. I don’t know much about Walker on the defensive end but the fact Jimmer basically plays one end of the floor would have been enough for me to not vote for him NPOY. He might score 28 ppg but if he is giving up points on the other end it negates his scoring some.

  • Heel To The End

    he got 75%ish of the vote. to me, its closer than that. i think Kemba came in 2nd because of the Big East Tournament more than the season.
    Fredette can shoot from 28′ with ease, and get to the backboard for layups. and he dishes more than youd think.
    tough vote.

  • Yes, Jimmer’s lack of D crossed my mind, but his O is so crazy good, I think it offsets that. If the vote was for AAPOY (All Around Player of the Year)I’d vote for Nolan.

  • BoyWilliams


    I took the 32 years of UNC hoops statistics (1980-2011) at http://home.roadrunner.com/~unc92sax/2011ratings.html and graded each team with a combo of win% and per-minute, pace-adjusted game stats from both UNC and our opponents (in games vs. UNC only). I used NCAA tournament results to break ties. The results seem to pass the eyeball test — even more-so than the KenPom rankings of recent UNC teams.

    OVERALL RATING=(win%)+(UNC team rating)+(1-opponent rating vs. UNC)

    All raw scores were then converted into a percentage of the best team’s score.

    1. 1982 (worthy/perkins, champs), 100%
    2. 1998 (jamison/carter, final4), 99
    3. 1984 (jordan/perkins, sweet16), 99
    4. 2005 (may/mccants, champs), 98
    5. 2009 (lawson/hansbrough, champs), 98
    6. 2008 (hansbrough/lawson, final4), 98%
    7. 1987 (wolf/k.smith, elite8), 98
    8. 1993 (lynch/montross, champs), 97
    9. 2007 (wright/hansbrough, elite8), 94
    10. 1986 (daugherty/hale, sweet16), 94
    11. 1991 (fox/davis, final4), 93%
    12. 1994 (stackhouse/phelps, 2ndRd), 91
    13. 1997 (carter/jamison, final4), 90
    14. 1983 (jordan/perkins, elite8), 90
    15. 1995 (wallace/stackhouse, final4), 90
    16. 1988 (reid/k.smith, elite8), 88%
    17. 1989 (bucknall/madden, sweet16), 88
    18. 1981 (wood/perkins, final4), 87
    19. 2011 (ZELLER/HENSON, ELITE8), 87 — this year’s team!
    20. 1985 (daugherty/martin, elite8), 87
    21. 2001 (forte/capel, 2ndRd), 86%
    22. 2006 (hansbrough/terry, 2ndRd), 86
    23. 1980 (wood/okoren, 1stRd), 83
    24. 1999 (okulaja/cota, 1stRd), 83
    25. 1992 (davis/lynch, sweet16), 83
    26. 1996 (mcinnis/jamison, 2ndRd), 80%
    27. 2004 (mccants/may, 2ndRd), 80
    28. 2000 (forte/haywood, final4), 78
    29. 1990 (williams/fox, sweet16), 77
    30. 2010 (zeller/thompson, NIT), 71 — last year’s team!
    31. 2003 (mccants/may, NIT), 71%
    32. 2002 (capel/lang, nothin’), 54

    From these stats, the 2011 team also has the following rankings out of the 32 teams from 1980-2011: win%=17th/32, offense=28th/32, defense=13th/32.


  • faustus1500


    Jimmer doesn’t play a lick of defense? That may be a major understatement! His own teammates have commented on how lost he is on the defensive end.

  • rathskellar68

    I mostly agree, as I often do, with UNC RAJ.

    College is a four year experience, and it’s among the best four years you’ll ever have. If you want to go to college, GO. When you go, stay.

    All the emphasis on money is overblown. Cases of actual serious hardship are very rare. The player is well taken care of by his athletic scholarship, and somehow his family was managing to get by for the 18 previous years.

    The problem, or one of the problems, is that the word “commitment” no longer has a definition. It used to mean that, once you gave your word, you kept it, even if, later, other options seemed more attractive. Now, “commitment” means the OPPOSITE of its original and legitimate meaning — to wit, what it means now is “do what you want when you feel like it.”

    Hansbrough stayed. As in so many other things, he set the standard to which others should aspire. And it demeans him to say that he stayed only because his father is a surgeon and therefore has money. In the first place, the actual evidence that that’s why he stayed is lacking; and in the second place, it was perfectly obvious that the reason he stayed is that he loved college life, loved being on the team, and wanted its and his ultimate success.

    We have been overrun with college ball as merely the precursor to making a fortune. In the first place, no one needs a fortune, and in the second place, a fortune isn’t going to buy you back the part of your youth you gave up.

    If you want an NBA career after high school, fine. Go for it. It’s a free country and a free market. But if you sign up for college, mean it and get out of it all the wonderful things that are there to be had.

  • logic

    Well said Rath.

    I know LeBron James is an exceptional exception, but I bet he wonders about missing out on that college experience. Were the extra millions worth it?

    How about JR Smith, now playing with two UNC NCAA champs. Do you think he wonders what if? He could have been part of the UNC family for life.

  • william

    I like what you are doing, BoyWilliams, but I wish you would tell us more about how you are compiling and using that fellow’s stats. I have to say that the 1981 team did mirror this year’s team, including having already beaten the team it lost to in the NCAA tourney, but I am still not sure this year’s squad matches up with Worthy, Perkins, Jimmy Black, Al Wood and Mike Pepper, but maybe so….